| Author |
Topic: Emmons LLIII pedal travel adjustment screws |
D Watson
From:
Marion, Indiana, USA (deceased)
|
Posted 2 Jul 2010 9:15 am |
|
I have an Emmons LLIII #2029L that the pedal travel adjustment screws are eating into the wood to the point that the screws actually get caught in the wood at times. What can be done to prevent this? I haven't seen this issue discussed here on the forum. Also, what year may #2029L be?
Dave Watson
Last edited by D Watson on 15 Jul 2010 11:45 am; edited 2 times in total |
|
|
 |
Roger Crawford
From:
Griffin, GA USA
|
Posted 2 Jul 2010 9:32 am
|
|
| Dave, my LGIII is #1930, and is was built in 1999. Yours would be at least a couple of years newer. My pedal stop bar has a tiny bit of wear, nothing close to having the pedal stop bracket get hung in it. Maybe you could try putting some wood filler in the pitted stop bar and sand it flush. I'm with you on never having see this problem addressed here on the Forum. |
|
|
|
John Bechtel
From:
Nashville, Tennessee, R.I.P.
|
Posted 2 Jul 2010 12:15 pm
|
|
Does this problem refer to the tip of the adjustment screw that is eating a small hole into the body? The stop for the pedal-down position is not adjustable. It is part of the front-apron and all pedals stop in the same position. If the tip of the adjustment-scre is the problem, I would suggest removing the adjustment-screws and rounding of the tips of the threads on a grinding-wheel or with a file to make them smoother. The end of the thread can be sharp and dig into the wood over time.
_________________
<marquee> Go~Daddy~Go, (No), Go, It's your Break Time</marquee> L8R, jb
My T-10 Remington Steelmaster
Last edited by John Bechtel on 2 Jul 2010 12:21 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
|
|
Larry Moore
From:
Hampton, Ga. USA
|
Posted 2 Jul 2010 12:16 pm
|
|
Dave & Roger
I have a LGII S/N 2046-L it is a 2001.
Are we talking about the allen screw on the cross shaft?
I have not had any problem with the screw digging into the wood.
The stop for the pedal on mine touches a metal bar bolted to the front apron.
Larry |
|
|
|
Roger Crawford
From:
Griffin, GA USA
|
Posted 2 Jul 2010 1:06 pm
|
|
| John is right on about the pedal stop bar. It's steel, and not adjustable. You may not have enough slack in the pull if there is enough tension on it to pull that screw up against the body. You may have an adjust issue that needs to be addressed. |
|
|
|
D Watson
From:
Marion, Indiana, USA (deceased)
|
Posted 2 Jul 2010 1:20 pm Emmons LLIII pedal travel adjustment screws
|
|
Roger, John and Larry. I am talking about the adjustment screw eating into the wood at the spot
where it hits when the pedals are released. I believe
on most PSGs the amount of pedal travel is adjusted by how far the shaft is allowed to be pulled whereas
on Emmons guitars the pedal travel is adjusted by how far the shaft is allowed to return. Even the P/Ps
are made that way BUT, the P/Ps adjusting screws hit at more of a right angle. I have considered screwing a self locking acorn nut on the end of each adjusting screw. They are rounded. Many thanks to all.
DW
Last edited by D Watson on 5 Jul 2010 7:21 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
|
|
D Watson
From:
Marion, Indiana, USA (deceased)
|
Posted 2 Jul 2010 3:25 pm
|
|
Corection. The P/P pedal travel is adjusted by how far the shaft is alowed to be pulled. Sorry 'bout
that. DW |
|
|
|
John Bechtel
From:
Nashville, Tennessee, R.I.P.
|
Posted 2 Jul 2010 3:26 pm
|
|
That particular aspect of the LeGrande II & III and the Derby Steel are the same. I own a Derby and an Emmons LG-II. The stop for all pedals is automatic against about a 3/8” nylon-type subtance plate about 2½” wide and mounted on the front-apron and coated by the black flocking to match the body. The pedal return-springs are mounted onto that composit plate and the cross-shaft bottoms out on the edge of that plate. Then when the pedal is released, the Allen Set-Screw adjusts the travel of each pedal; incuding the extra travel. If that long allen-screw is too sharp, it will eventually cause a small hole to form in the body; due to the strength of the return-spring. The faster you release the pedal, the harder the screw hits the body, causing the dig-out!
_________________
<marquee> Go~Daddy~Go, (No), Go, It's your Break Time</marquee> L8R, jb
My T-10 Remington Steelmaster |
|
|
|
D Watson
From:
Marion, Indiana, USA (deceased)
|
Posted 2 Jul 2010 3:53 pm Emmons LLIII pedal travel adjustment screws
|
|
John   That's it. My A and B
pedal adjusting screws are going into the wood nearly
an eigth of an inch. It was getting so I wouldn't know where my B pedal would be when I released it because the screw was sometimes catching in the hole in the wood. Surely this has happened to others so on with the discusion.
DW
Last edited by D Watson on 5 Jul 2010 7:23 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
|
|
John Bechtel
From:
Nashville, Tennessee, R.I.P.
|
Posted 2 Jul 2010 4:04 pm
|
|
I honestly never heard of that serious a problem with that aspect. However, being a leather-worker also, I do have a small can of contact-cement and my solution to the problem would be to cement a piece of thin leather or a piece of a flat guitar-pick over the hole. It doesn't have to be a ‘hard-as-a-rock’ setting. Just put some cement to fill the hole and coate one side of the flat-pick and put it in place over the hole. The tension of the spring will hold it until dry enough for use. Then, the set-screw will always hit on the plastic pick.
_________________
<marquee> Go~Daddy~Go, (No), Go, It's your Break Time</marquee> L8R, jb
My T-10 Remington Steelmaster |
|
|
|
Jerry Roller
From:
Van Buren, Arkansas USA
|
Posted 3 Jul 2010 10:58 pm
|
|
It sounds to me like someone has adjusted those stop screws without pulling the cross shaft to keep the screws from digging in while turning. You should have some tension on the cross shaft to adjust the screws without the end of the screw touching the wood because it is hitting on an angle and digs in when turning. You might try engaging the pedal and tie it some way to expose the dug out area and carefully fill it with super glue and let it set up good. It might take several applications.
Jerry |
|
|
|
Clyde Mattocks
From:
Kinston, North Carolina, USA
|
Posted 4 Jul 2010 8:06 am
|
|
I have seen this problem on another LeGrande. The screw is almost missing the stop, consequently digging away the edge of the stop plate. On this particular guitar, the stop was wood. On p/p Emmons', the stop was steel and didn't get eaten away. The fix is to somehow bend the crank that holds the stop screw over enough to make the screw contact the middle of the plate. I'm not going to say hit it with a punch, ugh, but you have to use your imagination.
_________________
LeGrande II, Nash. 112, Fender Twin Tone Master, Session 400, Harlow Dobro, R.Q.Jones Dobro |
|
|
|
Jerry Roller
From:
Van Buren, Arkansas USA
|
Posted 4 Jul 2010 8:33 am
|
|
The pedal stop is the edge of the crank where the pedal rod fits into the hole. That edge seats against a steel bar mounted to the front apron. That is not the problem. the travel adjustment machine bolt comes to rest in the idle position against the wood deck. There is no reason for wear at that point as there is almost no pressure against it at all, however, if you leave the cross shaft in idle position and start screwing that bolt in it will bind against the wood due to the angle it hits the wood and it can actually catch hold and start pulling out wood with the edge of the thread. I am sure that is what has happened. There is nothing that needs to be bent or knocked into place. Any method that will restore a smooth level surface where that adjustment screw hits the cabinet will fix the problem. If you start screwing that bolt in without moving the cross shaft away from the idle position you can dig a hole and just about lock up the cross shaft. Then when you hit the pedal a little piece of wood will be pulled out. That screws needs to be adjusted so as to leave a little bit of free travel of the cross shaft when the pedal is in tune.
Jerry |
|
|
|
Clyde Mattocks
From:
Kinston, North Carolina, USA
|
Posted 4 Jul 2010 12:44 pm
|
|
Jerry, thanks, I stand corrected. Its been a while since saw this problem, so I went back and looked at my LeGrande. It was actually the edge of the pedal crank, the angled end where the pedalrod hooks in. That edge(the actual end that strikes the stop)was almost missing the wood stop and finally ate away enough to where the pedals wouldn't stop.
_________________
LeGrande II, Nash. 112, Fender Twin Tone Master, Session 400, Harlow Dobro, R.Q.Jones Dobro |
|
|
|
Jerry Roller
From:
Van Buren, Arkansas USA
|
Posted 4 Jul 2010 1:30 pm
|
|
Clyde, that sounds bad. I have never seen a LeGrande with the pedal stop made of wood. Some of the early push pulls were wood but later they went to a heavy bar of steel. Some of the techs replace the steel stop with maple. I think that cuts about 8 to 10 pounds off the weight. I don't thing anyone believes it helps tonewise. It sounds to me like there were too many washers put on your cross shafts at the front apron. As for the stop being wood I don't have an answer for that. I am not meaning to be correcting but just trying to keep the picture clear.
Jerry |
|
|
|
Roger Crawford
From:
Griffin, GA USA
|
Posted 4 Jul 2010 5:09 pm
|
|
| According to the magnet that sticks to mine, it's steel. |
|
|
|
D Watson
From:
Marion, Indiana, USA (deceased)
|
Posted 4 Jul 2010 6:04 pm Emmons LLIII pedal travel adjustment screws
|
|
As I told Jerry in an email, Every adjusting screw, one for each pedal, are gauging into the wood. This is something that has been done before I owned the guitar. From what he tells me, there have been many changes made since the original owner. Thanks to everyone for their coments.
D Watson
Last edited by D Watson on 5 Jul 2010 7:25 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
|
|
Jim Mathis
From:
Overland Park, Kansas, USA
|
Posted 4 Jul 2010 6:20 pm
|
|
I have LeGrande III # 1860. The stop is definately steel. I checked it with a magnet.
_________________
Jim@MathisPhoto.net |
|
|
|
Jerry Roller
From:
Van Buren, Arkansas USA
|
Posted 4 Jul 2010 6:38 pm
|
|
That screw is just a travel distance adjustment and no pressure on it. Make a smooth surface for it to land on and all should be well.
Jerry |
|
|
|
D Watson
From:
Marion, Indiana, USA (deceased)
|
Posted 5 Jul 2010 8:59 am Emmons LLIII pedal travel adjustment screws
|
|
Jim, When you look at the spot where the adjusting screws hit, what do you see? A amall hole in the wood, no hole, undamaged paint? Check all of your screws, the A and B pedals in particular. Thanks.
Dave
Last edited by D Watson on 5 Jul 2010 7:27 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
|
|
Willis Vanderberg
From:
Petoskey Mi
|
Posted 5 Jul 2010 9:48 am
|
|
David Robbins in Nashville does a great job on the Legrand lll guitar. He is reasonable and you will be amazed the way your guitar will play. If you think the Legrande plays hard it is because it was never set up properly in the first place. The factory set up on most guitars is set as an average. It can be tweaked to improve the playability.There may be other mechanics as well as David. He is a pro player and knows how the guitar should feel. He also in an expert with setting the counterforce mechanism.
this is my opinion and only that.. |
|
|
|
D Watson
From:
Marion, Indiana, USA (deceased)
|
Posted 9 Jul 2010 8:06 am
|
|
TTT  |
|
|
|
Jerry Roller
From:
Van Buren, Arkansas USA
|
Posted 9 Jul 2010 10:27 pm
|
|
I would not blame the factory for any problems with this guitar. It came from the factory as a red lacquer D10 with 5 levers. It is now green lacquer with abalone inlay and has 9 levers I am told. There is no reason to think that the tear down, refinish, re-assembly and the added levers were done by the Emmons factory. I do think it needs attention by someone like David Robbins.
Jerry |
|
|
|
Jim Palenscar
From:
Oceanside, Calif, USA
|
Posted 10 Jul 2010 5:33 am
|
|
I've used small furniture glides to fix problems such as this - they are available in sizes as small as 1/4" round and can be reduced further if needed and come with one side that adheres.
Last edited by Jim Palenscar on 12 Jul 2010 7:13 am; edited 1 time in total |
|
|
|
Buddy Castleberry
From:
HAWKINSVILLE GA USA - R.I.P.
|
Posted 11 Jul 2010 2:33 pm
|
|
jerry does this sound right i think maybe someone has over adjusted.
if the bell cranks are not straight up and they are leaning forward to much the stop screw will be hitting at an angle and they will scar the wood and hang up. seen it before |
|
|
|
