Which change would be more useful?

John Polstra · From: Lopez Island, WA, USA

Currently, my LKV raises strings 1 and 7 from F# to G. I use the string 1 change a lot, but almost never use the string 7 change. I'm considering replacing the string 7 change with one of the following:

or

Either change would give me the sus2 -> major chord transition that we all know and love for the no pedals position, analogous to rolling onto the A pedal in the pedals down position. Right now I'm leaning toward the string 6 lower, because it would be nice to end up on the major chord with a common grip and without needing to hold LKV. But I'd like to get your opinions before I take the plunge.

Thanks,
John

Larry Bell · From: Englewood, Florida

I have both and use them differently.

I tend to think of G# to F# as an inverse of the A pedal with B as the root. (6th goes to 5th tone -- let off and it's 5 to 6 like the A pedal) It can be used with the E to D# lever to give the major triad (B open) with the 10th or 5th string as the root. So lowering G# to F# and E's to D# gives you BMa; releasing both -- independently or together -- gives you the I --> IV BMa to EMa. Alone you do get a thirdless Eadd9 open. There is a reason that Buddy Emmons has had this change since the 60s. It can be very useful.

I think of the F# to G# change in an open E -- pulling the 2nd/9th up to a 3rd in unison with the 6th string -- releasing it is like G# to F# (in fact, Paul Franklin doesn't have G# to F# alone -- only w/B to A -- and he has says he uses releasing F# to G when he wants that voice without lowering the B string. It is also very useful in the pedals down context -- A open -- raising the 6th to a Ma7 with the tonic adjacent to it on 6 -- a very cool close voicing of AMa7 (open).

If I had to choose I'd probably go with G# to F#. Just my take on it.

I find both of those lever functions to be more important than F# to G but you will find those (maybe b0b) who could argue in favor of that change.
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Ryan Barwin · From: Hamilton, Ontario, Canada

Could you post the rest of your setup? That makes a difference to what's most useful.
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Jerry Roller · From: Van Buren, Arkansas USA

6th string whole tone lower would be my choice but I would be raising the 1st string a whole tone and the 2nd a half tone with that lever.
Jerry

John Polstra · From: Lopez Island, WA, USA

Ryan, I play an E9/B6 12-string universal and my copedent is fairly run of the mill:

I've only been playing pedal steel a little over a year, and at this point I'm mainly interested in playing fills in classic-style country tunes (like, say, Merle Haggard's tunes from the early 70s).

Jerry, the half-step raise on string 1 is needed all over the place in the music I'm playing, so I don't want to change that. I've never heard of having a half-step raise on string 2. Doesn't that simply duplicate what you've already got with the half-step lower on string 4? (As an aside: sometimes I'm tempted to remove string 2 entirely. I don't use it much, and it sounds horrible when I miss string 3 and pick it accidentally! I know . . . practice, practice, practice. Oh Well

)

Larry, your detailed explanation opened up all kinds of possibilities I hadn't thought of before -- especially using G# to F# in conjunction with the E lower.

I think I'll play around with the 7th string F# to G# first, since I can do that with a simple twist of the tuning wrench. But I have a feeling I'm going to end up using the 6th string G# to F#.

Many thanks to all of you!

John

Dave Mudgett · From: Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee

Now that we can see your setup, it's easier to comment.

Like Larry, I really like the G#=>F# change and use it heavily with the E=>Eb lower, but you won't be able to use it that effectively if you keep it on the same knee as E=>Eb. There are at least three ways you could deal with this:

1. If you really like E=>Eb on the same knee as E=>F, then you could put B=>Bb on LKV and now put G#=>F# on RKL. But now you will have trouble using B=>Bb and E=>Eb together, and I also consider that a disadvantage since there are some good moves with them together.

2. If you're not wedded to E=>Eb on the same knee as E=>F, then you could move E=>Eb to RKL, B=>Bb to LKV, and G#=>F# to LKR. This is the way I have my 12-string universal set up, and it gives a host of other advantages, including not having to hold in the E=>Eb lever with the left knee while concurrently pressing pedals 4-8 in so-called 'B6' mode. This is exactly the way I have my U12 set up, and I think a lot of universal players do it this way.

3. If you want to have {B=>Bb and G#=>F#} on opposite knees from E=>Eb while still keeping {E=>Eb and E=>F} on the same knee, you could put first pair on the left knee and the second pair on the right knee - that also takes care of all the issues mentioned above.

For more info on deciding whether or not to put E=>Eb on the same knee as E=>F, you should read this thread, which IMO is definitive in its treatment of the subject - http://steelguitarforum.com/Forum5/HTML/007769.html

Clearly, there's no 'correct' answer, it's always about making tradeoffs.

b0b · From: Cloverdale, CA, USA

Either way (6th string lower or 7th string raise), you have the same problem: those changes are designed to work with the E lowers. Dave Mudgett's analysis (above) is right on.
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John Polstra · From: Lopez Island, WA, USA

Drat! Stymied again. I was hoping this would be an easy change that wouldn't require buying pull rods and reconfiguring all the knee levers.

David, I'm not wedded to having the E raises and lowers on the same knee, and I understand the arguments for having them on separate knees. The only issue is that I'm used to having them both on my left knee; but that's probably not a show-stopper. At least I've only been playing that way for a year instead of for 30 years.

But I still have a question about your recommendations. Let's say I decided on #2:

Dave Mudgett · From: Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee

You always pays your money and takes your choice - it's always a tradeoff. B=>Bb in 'B6 mode' is indeed a standard 6th mode change - it lowers the root B to 7 Bb, as does the E=>Eb change on E9. I haven't found the LKV location a huge problem, but you could always put B=>Bb on LKR and G#=>F# on LKV if you prefer. In fact, my B=>Bb was originally on the sideways-lever opposite my E=>Eb lever.

I guess if I was predominately a 6th-style player, I probably would have left B=>Bb on LKR. But for most things, I found putting G#=>F# there was a better tradeoff for me. Overall, I find the sideways-moving levers easier to work with, and I use G#=>F# a lot. But if you're gonna have a vertical lever, something has to go on it. So even though that vertical is sometimes a bit harder to use, I'm glad it's on there.

Personally, I was just happy that I had progressed enough to be thinking about anything besides the 'meat and potatoes' 3+3 setup - A, B, C, E=>Eb, E=>F, and D#=>D=>Db + D=>C#. Everything else is gravy - season to taste, play it, and have fun. Smile

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