National Hot Rod cones in a Republic tricone guitar

Kekoa Blanchet · From: Kaua'i

I've got a set of NRP Hot Rod cones on order, to replace the stock cones in my Republic tricone. I sprung for a National T-Bar Bridge as well, even though I presume that the bridge matters a lot less than the cones. They should all be here in a couple of days. Any tricks to swapping them out? Any cautions?

Hugh Crumley · From: North Carolina, USA

If you use your existing saddle in the new T bar, it is very straightforward. Republic saddles, though, are usually ebony capped maple and the string slots are not carved like a National. National saddles are solid maple, and the slots are V-shaped so that the string sits on only the back edge of the V (nearest the tailpiece.) Do you have Bob Brozman's book on Nationals? It details how you will need to carve the saddle. If you are not sure about doing this, it would be a pretty simple job for a luthier to knock out. I have attached a pic of the saddle that I carved in my Republic-- hope this helps!

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Hugh Crumley
http://www.enoislanders.com

Kekoa Blanchet · From: Kaua'i

Thanks, Hugh. I don't have Bob Brozman's book, but your photo is very helpful. Elderly Instruments (who I ordered the cones from) listed a Beard ebony-tipped maple saddle as an item that people typically buy with the cones, and it was only a few dollars, so I got that too. I figured that when everything is taken apart, I can decide whether to use the Republic saddle or the National saddle or the Beard saddle.

Why did you decide to use a maple saddle rather than the ebony/maple Republic saddle? The Elderly catalog listing says that "adding the ebony tip to these hard maple saddle inserts brightens the sound and increases sustain", so it seems like a good thing. Of course, there can be a lot of difference between a catalog blurb and reality, so I wanted to get your opinion, as someone who has some real world experience with this.

Are the saddles the right height, or do you need to trim them to set the string height?

Any other tips or precautions from anyone?

Hugh Crumley · From: North Carolina, USA

Hi Kekoa,

Why did you decide to use a maple saddle rather than the ebony/maple Republic saddle?

I bought my cones directly from NRP, and when I got them, I talked to Jason Workman (NRP shop foreman & all around helpful and friendly person.) He told me that they only use hard rock maple for tricone saddles. In Brozman's book, he talks about quartersawn maple being the ideal, and that others people have experimented with (like ebony) just don't deliver the volume and tone. I think that among spider-bridge/dobro players, ebony-capped maple is considered superior, but for a tricone, I'd go with what the Dopyeras used and what Bob Brozman and the NRP shop foreman both suggest.

Are the saddles the right height, or do you need to trim them to set the string height?

The maple blank I got from NRP were just slightly oversized and had to be trimmed, slotted & the V notches cut out. My Republic is a squareneck, so the height was easy (as high as possible without the strings hitting the coverplate strap.) As you are making this adjustment, remember that the cones without string pressure are taller, and then once you have the guitar up to tune, they compress a little shorter. If you order a saddle blank from NRP, maybe you should get several, in case you learn something the hard way on the first go. They are not expensive ($5 I think I recall...)

Think about getting the Brozman book- it is fascinating read!

So as you move forward with your cone replacement, feel free to give me a shout if I can help.

Cheers,
Hugh
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Hugh Crumley
http://www.enoislanders.com

Kekoa Blanchet · From: Kaua'i

Thanks for your very helpful reply, Hugh. Your earlier posts about changing out the cones in your Republic guitar are what led me to try this.

You're absolutely right about the maple: go with the recommendation of the Dopyeras, Bob Brozman and the NRP shop foreman rather than what the Elderly catalog says!

I did get a chance to look at a friend's copy of Bob Brozman's book. Man, he sure is thorough! Is Page 242 the saddle setup instructions you mentioned? I notice that he says that "The height of the tricone saddle above the aluminum surface is generally 1/8" or within 1/16" of that." In the previous paragraph, he said "If it [the saddle] is too high, there is a decrease of volume and tone." Looking at my guitar (a square neck, like yours), it looks like a lot more than 1/8" of the saddle is showing, and from your photo, it seems like that's the case on your guitar as well. Any thoughts on that? Is this just a difference between the National construction and the Republic construction? Or is Bob talking about a round neck instead of a square neck? Or is it something to be investigated further?

Your picture of the slots in the saddle is very helpful. What tool did you use to shape the grooves?

Once again, thanks for your help with all this, Hugh. It's great to get the insight of someone who has done it before.

Has anybody else out there set up a tricone? Any insight that'll help keep me out of trouble would be appreciated!

Hugh Crumley · From: North Carolina, USA

Hi Again Kekoa,

I tried to match the saddle height of the original when I put the NRP maple saddle in, and it was pretty high. I am not sure about this, but I suspect that the Republic's neck angle may be different than that of an old National, and that would affect the saddle height and break angle.

When I upgraded my Republic, I added the hot rod cones first, then a few weeks later (after some investigation) did the saddle. In any case, after I changed the saddle, the guitar had a greater tonal range (more highs and lows), greater volume & greater sustain. It was totally worthwhile.

Tools: after I had used ordinary nut files to get regular slots in the saddle, I used a new xacto knife to cut the V notches. You might want to practice this first, then use a new blade when you get to the real real saddle. I'd be happy to help, but we'd have to find a way to get me to Kaua'i Smile

Cheers,
Hugh
_________________
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Hugh Crumley
http://www.enoislanders.com

Mike Harris · From: Texas, USA

Kekoa,

how did this all work out? We've got a roundneck Republic tricone that we're thinking of upgrading a bit. There are some out there who feel changing the bridge is even more important than swapping out the Continental cones. Of course, if you did both you're totally covered.

Any input is greatly appreciated.

thanks,

Mike

Kekoa Blanchet · From: Kaua'i

Mike,

Yep, I made the swap.

The tone and sustain both improved, although it wasn't as dramatic a change as I had, in my dreams, hoped for. If you suspend a Continental cone on the tip of a pencil, tap it and listen to it ring, and then do the same thing to a National cone, you'll hear a huge difference. Not so much the case after they're installed in a guitar, but I'm still glad I did it. I did change everything, bridge and cones, at the same time and so can't tell you which made more of a difference.

I've got it tuned to G6, same intervals as C6 but pitched lower. Trying not to confuse myself with an entirely different tuning yet. I'm really enjoying fooling around with this different sound.

The advice from Hugh Crumley was of tremendous help during the changeover. If you're considering doing it, make sure you read his posts above as well as the other threads that he's contributed to on this topic.

Derrick Mau · From: Honolulu, Hawaii, USA

Derrick Mau · From: Honolulu, Hawaii, USA

National Maple Saddle
Width 2-7/8"

David Matzenik · From: Cairns, on the Coral Sea

Very interesting thread. I see in BB's book the notches wear down over time. That seems to have happened with my '29 Tricone. Time for a new saddle?
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