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Topic: Another Oddball Bar |
Doug Beaumier
From:
Northampton, MA
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Andy Sandoval
From:
Bakersfield, California, USA
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Posted 17 Jun 2010 12:02 pm |
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| A variation on the bar with the attached ring no doubt. How does it work? Is it easy to use? |
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J. Wilson
From:
Manitoba, Canada
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Posted 17 Jun 2010 12:56 pm
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At first glance I'd say it was designed to increase ease of slant playing with the added multifunction of having an extra pick -- perhaps for punchier pull offs.
_________________
If Music Be the Food of Love, Play On. -Shakespeare
___________________________________________
1941 Ric B6 / 1948 National Dynamic / 1951 Bronson Supro / Custom teak wood Allen Melbert / Tut Taylor Dobro / Gold Tone Dojo / Martin D15S / Eastman P10 |
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Mike Neer
From:
NJ
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Posted 17 Jun 2010 1:13 pm
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Doug, where do you find these things? How cool.
Man, the things players will do to make slants easier! The truth is, the way to make slants easier is to learn how to do them properly.
Most of times, the players are either not holding the bar right, or are not using the fingers correctly. I see guys grabbing at both ends of the bar, when really the only thing you need to do is make sure you are exerting enough downward pressure with your forefinger, just at the first joint--that becomes the pivot point. In doing reverse slants, your middle finger serves as the stop for the bar, so your thumb is pushing the bar's other end so that the nose end is meeting the resistance of the your second finger. You adjust according to the size of the slant. You do the opposite for forward slants, except your thumb pushes the bar about 1" away from the end, closer to the middle. The hand position never changes.
_________________
Links to streaming music, websites, YouTube: Links |
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Michael Lee Allen
From:
Portage Park / Irving Park, Chicago, Illinois
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Posted 17 Jun 2010 2:32 pm
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REMOVED
_________________
"Wisdom does not always come with age. Many times age arrives alone."
Last edited by Michael Lee Allen on 27 Feb 2011 9:13 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Doug Beaumier
From:
Northampton, MA
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Posted 17 Jun 2010 3:35 pm
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| Quote: |
| Man, the things players will do to make slants easier! The truth is, the way to make slants easier is to learn how to do them properly. |
Mike, I agree 1000%. This kind of "Rube Goldberg" contraption actually inhibits slant technique by locking the finger in one position. There's no silver bullet. The player needs to learn how to use the bar properly for slants IMO.
I also agree with the idea that this could be a home made item. I can't imagine a company producing something like this, a pick attached to a bar?
BTW this bar was in a 1950's Framus (German) lap steel case along with some other accessories, bars, picks, that I have never seen before, original hang tags and receipt written in German. For that reason I was assumed that the bar was made in Germany, but now I'm not so sure.
_________________
My Site / My YouTube Channel
25 Songs C6 Lap Steel / 25 MORE Songs C6 Lap Steel / 16 Songs, C6, A6, B11 / 60 Popular Melodies E9 Pedal Steel |
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Nicholai Steindler
From:
New York, USA
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Posted 17 Jun 2010 3:43 pm
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| I use a bar similar to that without the pick. The reason is I have problems with my hands sometimes and it reduces hand strain to not have to grasp the bar. In fact if that's comfortable to use and rings appropriately I might be interested in buying it for giggles. |
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Alan Brookes
From:
Brummy living in Southern California
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Posted 17 Jun 2010 4:28 pm
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I admire anyone who uses him ingenuity to experiment with new ideas. I think what you have here is someone's experiment, and it probably didn't work the way he wanted it so he went on to the next project.
You never know whether things will work until you try them out.  |
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Mike Neer
From:
NJ
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Posted 17 Jun 2010 5:15 pm
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| Nicholai Steindler wrote: |
| I use a bar similar to that without the pick. The reason is I have problems with my hands sometimes and it reduces hand strain to not have to grasp the bar. In fact if that's comfortable to use and rings appropriately I might be interested in buying it for giggles. |
Nicholai, one doesn't need to grasp the bar. The principal is really that you are just guiding the bar, applying downward pressure and using your fingers to move it. The bar is sandwiched between your fingers and the strings. I can understand how one would feel about the ache from grasping a bar, but believe me, that's not how it's done. If you use the bar properly, you won't feel any strain in your palm because you won't be using it. The bar never goes past your knuckle.
_________________
Links to streaming music, websites, YouTube: Links |
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Jeff Hyman
From:
West Virginia, USA
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Posted 17 Jun 2010 5:24 pm
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| Maybe it's on backwards. Try putting the bar on top of the finger, and use the pick for scratching. |
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J. Wilson
From:
Manitoba, Canada
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Posted 17 Jun 2010 5:30 pm
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| Mike Neer wrote: |
| The principal is really that you are just guiding the bar, applying downward pressure and using your fingers to move it. |
Thanks Mike, for this description. I am never sure if I am doing it right, although it seems to be getting easier. Do you think we could convince you to shoot a short vid or series of pics showing the technique for slanting forward or backward and then slanting back into straight position?
I found forward slants easy with my Stevens bar and reverse slants a bit tricky, but I got the hang of it. Then I switched to the bullet bar and suddenly I found the reverse slant easier than the forward slant! Either way, getting back to regular position quickly is a bit awkward. Maybe if we had a good visual cue on proper technique to follow it would clear this up some.
_________________
If Music Be the Food of Love, Play On. -Shakespeare
___________________________________________
1941 Ric B6 / 1948 National Dynamic / 1951 Bronson Supro / Custom teak wood Allen Melbert / Tut Taylor Dobro / Gold Tone Dojo / Martin D15S / Eastman P10 |
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Nicholai Steindler
From:
New York, USA
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Posted 17 Jun 2010 5:50 pm
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| Mike Neer wrote: |
Nicholai, one doesn't need to grasp the bar. The principal is really that you are just guiding the bar, applying downward pressure and using your fingers to move it. The bar is sandwiched between your fingers and the strings. I can understand how one would feel about the ache from grasping a bar, but believe me, that's not how it's done. If you use the bar properly, you won't feel any strain in your palm because you won't be using it. The bar never goes past your knuckle. |
Thanks Mike, I appreciate it. Um, trust me, I don't have a choice sometimes, whatever mechanics behind it that are there, it is subjectively easier on me to strap a bar on some days, I have medical issues beyond my bad playing. The pain/numbness/inability to move fingers properly is felt from fingertips to elbow, and it's not user error, using a pencil, typing, etc does the same thing to me.
I've found three or four people who use bars like mine fo the same reasons, it works. |
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Mike Neer
From:
NJ
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Posted 17 Jun 2010 5:58 pm
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Well, Nicholai, unfortunately, that is a real issue for some people and I'm always sorry to hear that. Of course, my rant might be deemed insensitive to folks with hand and arthritic issues, but I hope it's understood (at least I hope) that it's not directed their way. Maybe on a good day you can get it to work for you and then resort to other methods on a not-so-good day! Just keep at it, whatever means necessary.
_________________
Links to streaming music, websites, YouTube: Links |
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Doug Beaumier
From:
Northampton, MA
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Guy Cundell
From:
More idle ramblings from South Australia
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Posted 17 Jun 2010 6:08 pm
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| I've had a bad case of "Steven's Droop" with my forefinger extending over the nose of the bar, developed when doing hammerons with the Stevens bar. It is a hard habit to break but I am working on it. I am now using Tribotone for both reso and lap. |
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Mike Neer
From:
NJ
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Posted 17 Jun 2010 6:29 pm
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Sorry, I took down the video which I made in haste on slanting. I had the right intentions, but in my haste I made a pretty poor video which didn't address how to make slants sound good, which is obviously paramount.
If I can find time to do it right, I'll make a video showing my slanting technique.
_________________
Links to streaming music, websites, YouTube: Links
Last edited by Mike Neer on 18 Jun 2010 5:40 am; edited 2 times in total |
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Terry Barnett
From:
Winnipeg Manitoba, Canada
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Posted 17 Jun 2010 7:09 pm
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| It is in fact a better mouse trap...Or an attempt at such. |
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Doug Beaumier
From:
Northampton, MA
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Posted 17 Jun 2010 7:30 pm
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The pick is screwed into a little cam that swivels left & right... but this swiveling mechanism doesn't make slants any easier to play, in my opinion. It's okay if you just want to slant the rear of the bar back or forward while keeping the nose of the bar on the same fret. But if you want to slant the nose forward and the rear back... or the nose back and the rear forward, it's very difficult because the finger is locked into the pick. The fingers need to be free to work the bar smoothly.
This bar is somewhat like the Spina Minor bar I posted a while back. It makes sense on paper, but it doesn't actually work very well. The smoothest sound is in the player's hands, not in some mechanical device.
_________________
My Site / My YouTube Channel
25 Songs C6 Lap Steel / 25 MORE Songs C6 Lap Steel / 16 Songs, C6, A6, B11 / 60 Popular Melodies E9 Pedal Steel |
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Ron Whitfield
From:
Kaaawa, Hawaii, USA
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Posted 18 Jun 2010 4:49 pm
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| Doug Beaumier wrote: |
| This bar is somewhat like the Spina Minor bar I posted a while back. It makes sense on paper, but it doesn't actually work very well. The smoothest sound is in the player's hands, not in some mechanical device. |
You never know tho, some folks might have had amazing success with any one of these oddball ventures that occasionally get re-discovered. We (the masses) just never heard them do it and usually would sound like crap trying ourselves.
BTW, I noticed you sidestepped the question of where you manage to find such an array of interesting items
But I'm glad you share the pertinent info  |
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Doug Beaumier
From:
Northampton, MA
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J. Wilson
From:
Manitoba, Canada
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Posted 19 Jun 2010 2:16 pm
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Let us know when that vid is re-posted Mike! Thx!
_________________
If Music Be the Food of Love, Play On. -Shakespeare
___________________________________________
1941 Ric B6 / 1948 National Dynamic / 1951 Bronson Supro / Custom teak wood Allen Melbert / Tut Taylor Dobro / Gold Tone Dojo / Martin D15S / Eastman P10 |
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Ron
From:
Hermiston, Oregon
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Posted 24 Jun 2010 10:28 pm
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Well fellows you are all wrong!
IT is a bar from a Hawiaain Tremoloa.
I have one with all the books how to play and prices for each part.
It was made in the 2os.
If you want to see one and hear it played go to
youtube-Tremoloa demo
Dont say I didnt wourn you!!
Where is the spell check? I have lost it!!
Robro Ron
_________________
what am I doing here? Ask Norman Hamlet |
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Philip Bender
From:
Palmetto FL USA (deceased)
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Posted 25 Jun 2010 1:20 am Odd bars
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Aloha All,
I recently purchased a bar from Stews slides Co.,
and it solved my problem caused by the Parkinsons that has taken away the dexterity that I used to have. It is a large bar with an indentation on the top for your first finger to fit into, and a slot cut into the bar on the center line, that allows an elastic strap to hold the bar against your first finger. It works very well, and the sustain is very good. Since I am now learning to play a pedal steel, with no slants, this bar is the answer to a prayer.
Thanks Stew,
Phil |
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Alan Brookes
From:
Brummy living in Southern California
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Posted 25 Jun 2010 6:34 am
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| Ron wrote: |
...If you want to see one and hear it played go to youtube-Tremoloa demo
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Here's the link...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ri36wOSuqG4
I bought one of those a couple of years ago as a cureo, and I have it hanging up on my wall. I figured it didn't make much sense as an instrument and, to my mind, the video proves it. 
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Paul M. Matthews
From:
New Jersey, USA
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Posted 28 Jun 2010 8:08 pm
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| Mike Neer wrote: |
| Nicholai Steindler wrote: |
| I use a bar similar to that without the pick. The reason is I have problems with my hands sometimes and it reduces hand strain to not have to grasp the bar. In fact if that's comfortable to use and rings appropriately I might be interested in buying it for giggles. |
Nicholai, one doesn't need to grasp the bar. The principal is really that you are just guiding the bar, applying downward pressure and using your fingers to move it. The bar is sandwiched between your fingers and the strings. I can understand how one would feel about the ache from grasping a bar, but believe me, that's not how it's done. If you use the bar properly, you won't feel any strain in your palm because you won't be using it. The bar never goes past your knuckle. |
Bless You Mike...I hope you never get acute Arthritis
_________________
I want to Steel it all..... |
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