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Topic: Big Balls |
Alan Brookes
From:
Brummy living in Southern California
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Posted 29 May 2010 1:35 pm |
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The Kingston Trio, and several others, sing "Big Ball's in Boston".
The Stoneman Family sing "Big Ball's in Monterrey".
George Strait sings "Big Ball's in Cowtown".
I've also heard "Big Ball's in Birmingham".
Which is the original ? |
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Fred Shannon
From:
Rocking "S" Ranch, Comancheria, Texas, R.I.P.
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Posted 29 May 2010 1:55 pm
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Hoyle Nix wrote and recorded Big Balls in Cowtown in 1949 for the old Star Talent label. The song was the first one released for Nix. Don't know about the others.
phred
_________________
There are only two defining forces that have offered to die for you; Jesus Christ and the American GI!!
Think about it!! |
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Mitch Drumm
From:
Frostbite Falls, hard by Veronica Lake
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Posted 29 May 2010 6:34 pm
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In the dimmest recesses of my memory, I think I have read that the general theme of the song goes back well before Hoyle's great recording---under another name of course. Maybe as far back as the 20s, and there have been lyric changes to fit circumstances along the way.
I don't know, but it would be kind of odd for the Kingston Trio to have heard a Hoyle Nix recording--in the Trio's heyday, none of Hoyle's recordings had been reissued. I think they were all from California and probably didn't hear Hoyle's version on radio--if they were old enough at the time? So, maybe they first heard another version through folk music channels rather than western swing. |
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Fred Shannon
From:
Rocking "S" Ranch, Comancheria, Texas, R.I.P.
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Posted 29 May 2010 7:07 pm
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Mitch, the melody might have existed before but the words to Big Balls in Cowtown were written and copyrighted by Hoyle Nix in 1949. The copyright work was done by one Jake Glickman who owned the famous "Record Shop" here in Big Spring. I was here and heard Hoyle play it numerous times.
Glickman BTW also wrote the music and copyrights for a couple of Lefty Frizzell's songs when Lefty was playing the old Ace of Clubs with a band I was in called "The Westerners". If I'm not mistaken the copyright to the song is now in the possession of Jody Nix, Hoyle's son. Not sure however.
phred
_________________
There are only two defining forces that have offered to die for you; Jesus Christ and the American GI!!
Think about it!! |
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Mitch Drumm
From:
Frostbite Falls, hard by Veronica Lake
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Posted 29 May 2010 7:34 pm
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| Fred Shannon wrote: |
Mitch, the melody might have existed before but the words to Big Balls in Cowtown were written and copyrighted by Hoyle Nix in 1949. The copyright work was done by one Jake Glickman who owned the famous "Record Shop" here in Big Spring. I was here and heard Hoyle play it numerous times.
Glickman BTW also wrote the music and copyrights for a couple of Lefty Frizzell's songs when Lefty was playing the old Ace of Clubs with a band I was in called "The Westerners". If I'm not mistaken the copyright to the song is now in the possession of Jody Nix, Hoyle's son. Not sure however.
phred |
Fred:
You are no doubt right about Hoyle's lyrics. I just meant to imply that the "Big Balls" thing likely goes back earlier--probably an old fiddle tune.
Glickman--don't you mean Oscar rather than Jake?
You and I exchanged a bunch of posts a year or so ago about Oscar and that legendary record store that I spent a week going through in 1974 (with the help of Sam, Oscar's right hand man). I went out to the Stampede and heard Hoyle sing the song myself during that trip.
I think you mentioned that The Record Shop is still going under Oscar's son Jake?
Is the Stampede still standing?
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Alvin Blaine
From:
Picture Rocks, Arizona, USA
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Posted 29 May 2010 7:40 pm
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"Big Ball In Brooklyn" is about the oldest recoding of it I've heard. The "Skillet Lickers" recorded it back in the '27. It was "Roll On The Ground" before that, and I think the first recording of it was Billy Golden, "Roll on the Ground" (Berliner 0539, c. 1900).
As for the Hoyle Nix version, he just changed a few words and the place of the Ball, and Bob Wills copied Hoyle's version. Then Merle Haggard sang it on the "Bob Wills - For The Last Time" album in '73 and that is the version George Strait covered(just about note for note).
Most bluegrass bands do it as "Big Ball In Brooklyn"(Bill Monroe, Flatt & Scruggs, Reno & Smiley all recorded it in the '50s), and some do it as "Big Ball In Boston".
If I had to guess I would say I possibly have 8 or so versions of the song ALL recorded long before the Kingston Trio and Hoyle Nix.
FYI - There is no apostrophe or "s" on ball. It's a ball, as in a dance, not multiple balls(plural) or something belonging to a ball(possessive) or "Big Ball is".
Here is a list of some recorded versions of it;
Warren Caplinger's Cumberland Mountain Entertainers, "Big Ball in Town" (Brunswick 241, 1928) Georgia Yellow Hammers, "Big Ball in Memphis" (Victor V-40138, 1929) Billy Golden, "Roll on the Ground" (Berliner 0539, c. 1900; Victor A-616, c. 1901; rec. 1899) (CYL Albany 1131 [as "Roll On de Ground"], n.d.) (CYL: Lambert 5077 [as "Roll on de Ground"], n.d. but c. 1900) Al Hopkins & his Buckle Busters, "Roll on the Ground" (Brunswick 186, 1927) J. E. Mainer's Mountaineers, "Big Ball's in Town" (King 622, 1947) Fate Norris & his Playboys, "Roll 'em on the Ground" (Columbia 15435-D, 1929) Gid Tanner & His Skillet Lickers, "Big Ball In Town" (Columbia 15204-D, 1927) Taylor-Griggs Louisiana Melody Makers, "Big Ball Up Town" (Victor 21768, 1928) Thaddeus C. Willingham, "Roll on the Ground" (AFS, 1939; on LC02, LCTreas) Del McCoury- High on a Mountain Rounder; J.E. Mainer- Good Old Mountain Music; Gid Tanner & His Skillet Lickers, "Big Ball In Town" (Columbia 15204-D, 1927); Thaddeus C. Willingham, "Roll on the Ground" (AFS, 1939; on LC02, LCTreas); Cooper, Wilma Lee. Songs to Remember, Cooper, Fol (19??), p 4 (Big Ball's in Boston); Georgia Yellow Hammers. Mountain Songs, County 504, LP, cut# 9 (Big Ball's in Memphis); Mainer's Mountaineers (J. E. Mainer's Mountaineers). Good Ole Mountain Music, King 666, LP (196?), cut# 12; Mountain Ramblers. Sounds of the South, Atlantic 7-82496-2, CD( (1993), cut#1.23 (Big Ball's in Boston); New Lost City Ramblers. There Ain't No Way Out, Smithsonian/Folkways 40098, CD (1997), cut#15; Nix, Hoyle; and his West Texas Cowboys. Operators' Special, String STR 807, LP (1979), cut#B.02 (Big Ball's in CowTown); Poston, Mutt; and the Farm Hands. Hoe Down! Vol. 6. Country Blues Instrumentals, Rural Rhythm RR 156, LP (197?), cut# 8 (Big Ball's in Memphis); Skillet Lickers. Skillet Lickers, Vol. 1, County 506, LP (196?), cut# 3; Texas Playboys. Texas Music, Heritage (Galax) 066, LP (1986), cut#A.04d (Big Ball's in CowTown); Mysterious Redbirds. Mysterious Redbirds, Copper Creek CCCD 0188, CD (2000), cut# 7 (Roll on the Ground); Paley, Tom. Hard Luck Papa. Old Time Picking Styles & Techniques, Kicking Mule KM 201, LP (1976), cut# 13 (Roll on the Ground); Paley, Tom. Shivaree!, Esoteric ES-538, LP (1955), cut# 10 (Roll on the Ground); Skillet Lickers. Corn Licker Still in Georgia, Voyager VRLP 303, LP (197?), cut#A.15 (Roll on the Ground); Smith, Ralph Lee. Allan Block & Ralph Lee Smith, Meadowlands MS 1, LP (1971), cut#B.09; Willingham, Thaddeus. Anglo-American Shanties, Lyric Songs, Dance Tunes & Spirituals, Library of Congress AAFS L 2, LP (195?), cut# 9
_________________
http://www.oldbluesound.com/about.htm
http://www.facebook.com/cowboytwang |
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Ray Riley
From:
Des Moines, Iowa, USA
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Posted 29 May 2010 8:59 pm Alvin,
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| You are truly a world of information. Thanks Ray |
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Scott Shipley
From:
The Ozark Mountains
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Fred Shannon
From:
Rocking "S" Ranch, Comancheria, Texas, R.I.P.
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Posted 30 May 2010 8:16 am
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Mitch of course you're right. Jake is still here and I just talked to him the other day. Don't know why I said him instead of Oscar. Oscar was a doozie. I worked in that basement for a year or so back in the late 40's, early 50's. Oscar knew where every record was believe me. Man I'm glad those days are gone. 
Nix and Wills were just like brothers. The two bands even travelled together at one time. A mutual admiration society if there ever was one. Jody and Larry, the two Nix brothers, are still blowing and going with Junior Knight on steel guitar. It's probably the tightest band Jody has ever put together.
Phred
phred
_________________
There are only two defining forces that have offered to die for you; Jesus Christ and the American GI!!
Think about it!! |
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Alan Brookes
From:
Brummy living in Southern California
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Posted 30 May 2010 8:52 am
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| Alvin Blaine wrote: |
...FYI - There is no apostrophe or "s" on ball. It's a ball, as in a dance, not multiple balls(plural) or something belonging to a ball(possessive) or "Big Ball is".
.. |
I realized that it's short for "Big Ball is", which is why it's imperitive that the apostrophe be there to denote the missing i. Otherwise, without the apostraphe, Balls would be plural. An apostraphe is NEVER used to denote a plural.  I'm sure you know that. 
Thanks Alvin, Fred and Mitch for going to such trouble to list all that great information.
By the way, I've always thought that "Big Ball's in Cowtown" sounds a bit abrupt, and it sounds better as "Big Ball in Cowtown" or "The Big Ball's in Cowtown", both of which I've heard sung. I've also noticed that the words change signicantly between the versions. |
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Mitch Drumm
From:
Frostbite Falls, hard by Veronica Lake
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Posted 30 May 2010 1:46 pm
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Fred:
Take a gander here:
http://tinyurl.com/23gwtu8
It's the complete article about The Record Shop from Texas Monthly, February 1977. Great quotes from Oscar, Sam, etc about how the store evolved----all the distributors knew Oscar rarely returned unsold stock for credit. He told me, "Why should I? They'd just send me more stuff I can't sell".
I am the "not-so-famous fanatic" referred to in the article who spent a week in the store without even a lunch break.
I also discovered Oscar's obituary. Born in Chicago, 1899; died in Eagle Pass, Texas, 1984. A character to the end, I'm sure.
Here's a great pic from the article of Oscar and Sam, from that time. They are both in uniform; that's exactly how I remember both of them.
You can't see in the picture, but from hip height down to the floor was a series of drawers containing even more 45s. The 78s were in the basement.
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Ray Minich
From:
Bradford, Pa. Frozen Tundra
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Posted 2 Jun 2010 3:34 pm
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| I just want to know what the balls were made of.... |
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Alan Brookes
From:
Brummy living in Southern California
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Posted 2 Jun 2010 4:23 pm
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...a ball is a get-together to dance.  |
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Scott Shipley
From:
The Ozark Mountains
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Ray Minich
From:
Bradford, Pa. Frozen Tundra
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Posted 2 Jun 2010 4:39 pm
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| As a kid growing up in northwestern Pa. we had no way of knowing. I only got to attend such an affair about 4 months ago. At 56-1/2 years now I know. |
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David Griffin
From:
Jimmy Creek,Arkansas via Cowtown, USA
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Posted 2 Jun 2010 5:17 pm
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In the fall of 1980 I was playing steel for Jerry Max Lane in Ft. Worth. President Jimmy Carter came to visit the FW Stockyards while campaigning against Ronald Reagan. We had played to warm up the crowd(Moe Bandy was also there w/ Tommy Detamore on steel) & just as the Presidents' chopper was touching down one of his assistants came running up to the stage & asked if we knew "Hail to the Chief" We didn't so we played,you guessed it,"Big Ball's in Cowtown"!
_________________
http://www.myspace.com/davidagriffin |
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Fred Shannon
From:
Rocking "S" Ranch, Comancheria, Texas, R.I.P.
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Posted 2 Jun 2010 5:24 pm
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Mitch, thanks for the memories. phred
_________________
There are only two defining forces that have offered to die for you; Jesus Christ and the American GI!!
Think about it!! |
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Richard Sevigny
From:
Salmon Arm, BC, Canada
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Posted 2 Jun 2010 5:46 pm
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AC/DC has a song about it...
_________________
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If at first the idea is not absurd, then there is no hope for it.
-Albert Einstein |
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Tommy Detamore
From:
Floresville, Texas
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Posted 3 Jun 2010 5:57 am
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| David Griffin wrote: |
| In the fall of 1980 I was playing steel for Jerry Max Lane in Ft. Worth. President Jimmy Carter came to visit the FW Stockyards while campaigning against Ronald Reagan. We had played to warm up the crowd(Moe Bandy was also there w/ Tommy Detamore on steel) & just as the Presidents' chopper was touching down one of his assistants came running up to the stage & asked if we knew "Hail to the Chief" We didn't so we played,you guessed it,"Big Ball's in Cowtown"! |
Dave, I don't think it could have been me. I didn't join Moe until 1982. It must have been Tommy Moran...
_________________
Tommy Detamore
Quilter Labs, Goodrich Sound, Source Audio, Neunaber Audio, and Stringjoy Authorized Dealer
www.cherryridgestudio.com
www.steelguitartracksonline.com |
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David Griffin
From:
Jimmy Creek,Arkansas via Cowtown, USA
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Posted 3 Jun 2010 11:45 am
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Tommy: Sorry about that! John Clark & I had talked about this a couple of months ago. All I could remember was "Tommy" & he thought it had to be you. 
_________________
http://www.myspace.com/davidagriffin |
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Alan Brookes
From:
Brummy living in Southern California
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Posted 3 Jun 2010 3:17 pm
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| David Griffin wrote: |
| In the fall of 1980 I was playing steel for Jerry Max Lane in Ft. Worth. President Jimmy Carter came to visit the FW Stockyards while campaigning against Ronald Reagan. We had played to warm up the crowd(Moe Bandy was also there w/ Tommy Detamore on steel) & just as the Presidents' chopper was touching down one of his assistants came running up to the stage & asked if we knew "Hail to the Chief" We didn't so we played,you guessed it,"Big Ball's in Cowtown"! |
How on earth could they expect a country band to play "Hail to the Chief"? They might as well have asked you to play "The Flight of the Bumblebee." 
You did the right thing to play Big Ball's in Cowtown. I imagine Jimmy Carter, being one of the Carter Family, probably preferred it anyway. Without going political, I have to say that Jimmie Carter is one of the few ex-Presidents who have devoted their lives after leaving office to public service. Most seem content to write their memoirs.  |
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Mitch Drumm
From:
Frostbite Falls, hard by Veronica Lake
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Posted 3 Jun 2010 5:10 pm
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Alan:
You were wondering about apostrophes, balls, ball's, etc.
I think the actual title as used by Hoyle Nix on his original 78 on the Talent label was "A Big Ball Is In Cowtown".
The label's name was soon changed to Star Talent and I think some copies may exist on Star Talent and they may have a modified title?
In the late 1950s, the Caprock label out of Big Spring released a Hoyle Nix recording that was entitled "Big Balls In Cowtown", plural, no apostrophe. Going from memory, I think this recording in reality is a re-release of the original Talent recording, albeit with a new title.
So it appears that by the late 50s, the song was popularly known in Texas as "Big Balls In Cowtown" and that likely has been the most common title used ever since. Not sure about the prevalence of the apostrophe in recent years.
The song seems to have been pretty much (entirely?) unrecorded throughout the 60s. I think it may have been Asleep At The Wheel that recorded it in the 70s and it has been recorded numerous times since. |
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David Griffin
From:
Jimmy Creek,Arkansas via Cowtown, USA
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Posted 4 Jun 2010 3:52 pm
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Alan: Yeah,that was pretty silly to request "Hail" wasn't it. We woulda been more likely to know "Flight of the BB"! And I think Jimmy Carter was a good man,not the greatest president,but I don't think it was his fault.IMHO he was a little too honest to be a politician.
_________________
http://www.myspace.com/davidagriffin |
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Alan Brookes
From:
Brummy living in Southern California
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Posted 4 Jun 2010 5:17 pm
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If you judge politicians by what they do AFTER they leave office, Jimmie Carter certainly sets a good impression. Instead of sitting back and writing his memoirs (although he's done that) he's devoted his post-Presidency years to public service.
Johnny Cash once said that he missed the White House being a Carter home where he could turn up with his family any time he wanted and be welcome. |
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Josh Haislip
From:
Midland, Texas
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Posted 14 Jun 2010 12:46 pm
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| Fred: I totally agree with you about Jody's band being the tightest they've ever been. I still frequent the stampede when I get a weekend off. Junior Knight rules. |
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