Problems with a GFI Ultra S10

Randy Waldo · From: Memphis,TN, USA

I traded, with Bobbe, for a used S10 GFI ultra that I have been fighting tuning issues with on and off since I got it last year. Talked to Bobbe a couple of times and he said to bring it to them and they would help me. That was also around the time I found Jeff Newman’s site and all the wealth of information on the forum on tuning and cabinet drop. I bought a Korg flip tuner off of flea bay that has the programmable temperament feature. I took it and sat down with Jeff’s conversion chart carefully converting note for note, octave for octave. That helped a bunch. I know that the C pedal brings the fourth string up to the same as the first string, which has different settings for each note. I just have to manually compensate for the difference between the two because the tuner registers same octave and note. Same way with a couple of other strings. Said all that to say this. After I get through tuning, there are certain combinations of strings that are way out of tune. Also I have a problem with strings drifting after they are dead on. You can exercise the pedals a couple of times or play a couple of riffs and sometimes the fourth and fifth will drift sharp or sometimes flat, a nightmare when you’re playing on a tracking session. I tightened the return springs to make sure that there is enough there to return the string back to correct pitch. That still hasn’t helped. I’m using Cobra strings from Bobbe, not sure if that would make a difference. I recently added a raise to the second string as this guitar didn’t have it on it. Also I attempted to add a raise on the eighth string on the C pedal to match the fourth string. I saw this on Paul Franklin’s copedant. I was working towards adding the raises and lowers that’s listed on his website. However, with that pull added, it seemed like it was putting a bigger strain on the body. I was having even more problems with cabinet drop. So bad I had to take it off. That helped. Anyway, any Ideas other that go buy another guitar? I’ve heard a lot of good things about GFI and how durable they are, and mine has a great tone for recording, but this one is starting to leave a bad taste in my mouth. I’m careful how I say that as that’s the only GFI I’ve ever played. The double necks may be more accurate. I live around the Athens, GA area. If anyone has a Peterson that I could hook up with and try to tune this thing with, it would be great. If truly my problem is the tuner, then I’ll buy a new tuner. I just hate to spend the extra money on something that might not be the problem. At this point I’m looking more towards the guitar. I sat for two hours the other night fighting with this thing. Thanks in advance for any help from you GFI guys out there or anyone else who has dealt with this before.

Be Blessed,
Randy

Dennis Wallis · From: Arkansas

I have a GFI Ultra SD-10 . It is a great guitar I don't have any of the problems you describe . It sounds more like it is out of adjustment . There may not be enough slack in the pulls to let it come back to tune . Also there is a proper way to tune in all the pedals (a sequence) that will make it work better . You may have just got a bad guitar but I doubt . They are good guitars. Mine will stay in tune for days . It is a keyless however . I'd also suggest getting a Peterson Stroboflip tuner . More accurate . Check your e-mail . I'm sending you some more info that might help .

Billy Carr · From: Seminary, Mississippi, USA (deceased)

Make sure all of the bellcranks are secure and not moving. I tune my guitars open to the JN presets and then I tune the p/kl'ers by ear, as each guitar is a little different. Also make sure the roller nuts are all moving freely and not sticking. I've had 3 or 4 GFI's and each one has been a great guitar.

Tim Kowalski · From: Illinois, USA

Randy,
I am not a GFI owner, but I would suggest that the first thing to try is to get a nice big screwdriver and tighten everything up. Make sure that end plates, tuning head, and changer are nice and snug. Check and tighten everything that you can. You may want to back off the return springs to where they were since the extra tension could add to your problem. (If it is cabinet drop)
You should measure the drop before and after the procedure so that you can determine if you have made an improvement.
Do this by picking string 4 and tune it to your tuner. Then press your A&B pedals and pick string 4. Note the difference and compare the results when you finish getting things snug.
You should not see more than a few cents difference. More than 4 or 5 cents drop will give you very noticable tuning problems.
Also be sure that your guitar is clean and lubricated.
Good luck.
Tim
_________________
Bad wine is better than no wine.

Jeff Harbour · From: Western Ohio, USA

Randy,

I'm goint to send you an email with details of how I tune my D-10. Might be drastically different than the single neck, but it also might do the trick for you. This is after carefully tuning each string and pull to best fit each chord I needed. I doubt the tuner is the problem, all that is critical is resolution to see a few cents or so. The tuners to avoid are guitar tuners that ONLY tell you if you are perfectly on the pitch or not. Unless they have the ability to program offsets, such as the Sonic Research ST-200 which is my tuner of choice. But, I also have a $20 Korg tuner that works just fine too. The only reason I got the ST-200 was for ease of use on stage, and not having to read my 3x5 cards with my offsets on them.

As for the return failure problem, I had a similar issue for a long time with the low C string (C6 string 10). In my case it turned out to be grooves in the nut and changer that had been made by the strings being under tension. All I did was buff them out with a Dremel-like tool and it's perfect now! And that's the string that has to cover an interval range of a fourth (A up to D).

Jeff

Kevin Hatton · From: Buffalo, N.Y.

Randy, how long have you been playing steel guitar and how many guitars have you owned? Has anyone else looked at the guitar? Did you have Bobbe look at the guitar? Jeff Newman's tuning chart should not be used as a bible for tuning a steel guitar. It does not work on all steel guitars. If you are basing your obervations on tuning to chart numbers I suggest you let an experienced player tune your guitar. This does not sound like any mechanical problem with your guitar. The only way to make sure is to have your guitar checked out by a professional.

Earnest Bovine · From: Los Angeles CA USA

Earnest Bovine · From: Los Angeles CA USA

Jeff Harbour · From: Western Ohio, USA

I DO recall that when I was trying to use straight Newman tuning my E strings would drop about 5 cents when the A & B pedals went down. Maybe Randy's is similar?
From my ear I can tell that Newman tuning is ideally good, and that's very close to what I end up with after making a chart by ear. The only problem is that it doesn't factor in 'cabinet drop'. (Not used to that term yet, but it's a quick way to say it).
From now on I will always asume every guitar has imperfections, tune by ear, then make a chart so I don't have to tune by ear in front of people. If I end up with a perfect guitar someday I'll still have the same end result.

Sonny Priddy · From: Elizabethtown, Kentucky, USA, R.I.P.

Try The String Guage GFI Says Use. I Do And Have Not Had Any Trouble. This mite help. SONNY.

Randy Waldo · From: Memphis,TN, USA

Hey Guys,
Thanks for getting back on this so quick. Someone asked how long I've been playing and how many guitars have I owned. I've been playing since I was 15 and I'm 43 now. I'm telling off on my age now. The only other guitar I've owned was a Shobud Pro 1 with 3 & 2. I can remember having just a regular tuner. I would tune the 4th & 5th strings with the tuner and would tune the rest by ear and it worked all those years. I had never heard of cabinet drop until I started researching tuning trying to find out all I could about the subject, since the method I had been using went out the door when I got this guitar. I hated to trade my Shobud off, but with the parts starting to wear out and breaking strings a lot and the fact that it only had 2 knee levers helped me to decide to make a move. Everyone I had spoken with, Brian Adams included, told me I'd be better of to trade than to try to have it overhauled. the tuner I have is a Korg LCA-120 Chromatic Flip-Up Digital Tuner. They no longer make them. This one allows you to program your offsets for each note. I'll probably wind up calling Bobbe or Danny in Nashville and just drive up there and let them adjust it out just to make sure that that parts good to go. Nice little 6 hour drive one way. One thing that could add insult to injury is the last time I strung it up, I notice that from the roller to the peg winder, some of the strings are at a slant. I will try backing the string off and re tighten making sure that the string is lined up with the roller nut as much as possible. I did tighten the springs up on some of the strings thinking that they make not be tight enough to make the string return to it's original note. I about have to hold down the opposite end when I engage my RKR as it will all but pick it up off the floor.

Anyways, thanks for all the info. I didn't intend trying write a novel for you, but I just want to let y'all know what I have tried so far.

A. J. Martinez · From: Ca.

Randy... I have the same guitar. Try this site it works for me. http:www.lozach.com/tuningphp

bob Ousby · From: Nevada, USA

Trying not to engage in information overload, but here's a great article by Jim Palenscar: www.steelguitars.me/Fix_it.html

Randy Waldo · From: Memphis,TN, USA

Hey Guys,
First of all let me thank everyone for the outpouring of advice and help on my problem with my guitar. I'm careful to say this as not jinx myself, but I think I may have got it back to where it needs to be as far as my tuning problem. After further inspection, I found a couple of pull rods on one of my knee levers going in a bind. In fact it was my RKL that raises the 1st & 7th strings. I got that straightened out. Also the 2nd string feel stop was out of tune when it hit the feel stop. I re adjusted the two pull rods on those two strings. Also I had to adjust some of the return springs as I found one that wasn't returning to the neutral position. By the grace of God I think I actually have it completely in tune to where you can pretty much hit any different string combinations with pedals and knee levers and it's actually in tune. I wound up still using Jeff Newman's chart to set up my tuner with. Not sure if all this will help my situation with strings drifting out of tune. With what I have done so far, I know it can't hurt, it only can help.
Again Many thanks. Of course my wife is happy to get her kitchen table back. Laughing

Be Blessed,
Randy

Larry Bressington · From: Nebraska

I tuned to my own temperemant for many years with tedious exsperimentation, when i checked jeff newmans chart, it was almost identical. I think it is good, but everybody has a twist on the tuning of a steel unlike a tele, where we all plug in tune our 6 strings open and start working.
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A.K.A Chappy.

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