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Topic: Rickenbacker Silver Hawaiian sound sample? |
J. Wilson
From:
Manitoba, Canada
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Posted 28 May 2010 8:32 am |
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These things cost a lot but seem to be fairly available if you know where to look... but damn if I can find a single video or sound sample of one. If anyone has a link to a sample I would really appreciate seeing/hearing it. Rick Aeillo says on his site that they have a sort of 'scooped' sound. I think I can sort of imagine it ... but would like to hear one for real.
_________________
If Music Be the Food of Love, Play On. -Shakespeare
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1941 Ric B6 / 1948 National Dynamic / 1951 Bronson Supro / Custom teak wood Allen Melbert / Tut Taylor Dobro / Gold Tone Dojo / Martin D15S / Eastman P10 |
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Ray Montee
From:
Portland, Oregon (deceased)
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Posted 28 May 2010 11:01 am If I could help you out, I would.............
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I know of not a single recording artist that consistantly used one........
I wonder if there is a reason for that lack of prominance? |
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J. Wilson
From:
Manitoba, Canada
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Posted 28 May 2010 11:11 am Re: If I could help you out, I would.............
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| Ray Montee wrote: |
I know of not a single recording artist that consistantly used one........
I wonder if there is a reason for that lack of prominance? |
Yes I was wondering the same thing. Perhaps they had too much 'character'?
_________________
If Music Be the Food of Love, Play On. -Shakespeare
___________________________________________
1941 Ric B6 / 1948 National Dynamic / 1951 Bronson Supro / Custom teak wood Allen Melbert / Tut Taylor Dobro / Gold Tone Dojo / Martin D15S / Eastman P10 |
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Steve Ahola
From:
Concord, California
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Posted 28 May 2010 3:59 pm Re: If I could help you out, I would.............
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| J. Wilson wrote: |
| Ray Montee wrote: |
I know of not a single recording artist that consistantly used one........
I wonder if there is a reason for that lack of prominence? |
Yes I was wondering the same thing. Perhaps they had too much 'character'? |
What the heck- it ain't Sol Hoopii but just me messing around with my Silver Hawaiian this afternoon playing along with a backing track mixed way too low. Kinda embarrassing to share this with all of the great players on this forum...
I stuffed my Silver Hawaiian with red "auto shop" rags last week to see if I could get a sound more like a Model B. I had it set up for more of a Hawaiian sound before- the way I have it set up is for stone blues and it gets some great tones both clean and with some distortion.
EDIT That was Version 1.0- the "red rag" mod. That has been replaced with the "white rag" Version 2.0 mod which has more sustain and resonance (like a real guitar!)
Here is the folder with my Silver Hawaiian sound samples:
http://tinyurl.com/silver-ricky
Steve Ahola
_________________
www.blueguitar.org
Recordings on electric guitar:
http://www.box.net/blue-diamonds
http://www.box.net/the-culprits
Last edited by Steve Ahola on 3 Jun 2010 5:55 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Bill Creller
From:
Saginaw, Michigan, USA (deceased)
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Posted 28 May 2010 11:25 pm
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| I did some work one one a few years ago. Not to put it down, but it was not impressive at all. It had no newspaper stuffing in it, so maybe it needed something in there. It was "tinny" sounding. |
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J. Wilson
From:
Manitoba, Canada
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Posted 29 May 2010 8:47 am
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Thanks Steve! Finally! I got to hear one.
It's warmer than I had imagined -- when I looked at them I thought it would sound tinny, like Bill Creller said. But Maybe it's the setup you're using in that sound sample....
Regarding the sound of the instrument in general, I thought it would have better sustain, having that horseshoe on it. So I guess with the Bakelite Ricks all that magic isn't in the horseshoe -- its the horseshoe and bakelite that make a magic combination maybe.
_________________
If Music Be the Food of Love, Play On. -Shakespeare
___________________________________________
1941 Ric B6 / 1948 National Dynamic / 1951 Bronson Supro / Custom teak wood Allen Melbert / Tut Taylor Dobro / Gold Tone Dojo / Martin D15S / Eastman P10 |
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Keith Cordell
From:
San Diego
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Posted 29 May 2010 9:26 am
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| I like the way they sound but won't ever pay collector prices for one- they fall in the "you gotta be kidding" category for "bang for the buck" purchases, unless you just want to look at 'em. They are a one trick pony. They do that trick pretty well but I can find those kind of steels for way less than half that price without the flaky chrome plating. |
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J. Wilson
From:
Manitoba, Canada
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Posted 29 May 2010 9:43 am
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| Keith Cordell wrote: |
| I like the way they sound but won't ever pay collector prices for one- they fall in the "you gotta be kidding" category for "bang for the buck" purchases, unless you just want to look at 'em. They are a one trick pony. They do that trick pretty well but I can find those kind of steels for way less than half that price without the flaky chrome plating. |
Yeah I agree with you about the price.
Regarding what you said about that Oahu... if you interested check this out:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320538982430&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT
As of now, you have about an hour left I think...
_________________
If Music Be the Food of Love, Play On. -Shakespeare
___________________________________________
1941 Ric B6 / 1948 National Dynamic / 1951 Bronson Supro / Custom teak wood Allen Melbert / Tut Taylor Dobro / Gold Tone Dojo / Martin D15S / Eastman P10 |
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Keith Cordell
From:
San Diego
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Posted 29 May 2010 10:06 am
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| That's an extraordinary deal, if I had the dough it'd be mine. |
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Billy Tonnesen
From:
R.I.P., Buena Park, California
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Posted 1 Jun 2010 5:24 pm
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| Back in the 40's in So. Calif. there was a very good Steel player named Ralph Miele who played a six string chrome (or polished) Steel. I remember Ralph playing with Deuce Spriggins at the Riverside Rancho in Glendale Ca. Ralph played good Hawaiian and Western Swing. He could really tear up the song "Little Rock Getaway". I think he also taught Steel Guitar. He had a lot of Jerry Byrd touch. |
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J. Wilson
From:
Manitoba, Canada
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Posted 1 Jun 2010 5:39 pm
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| Billy Tonnesen wrote: |
| Back in the 40's in So. Calif. there was a very good Steel player named Ralph Miele who played a six string chrome (or polished) Steel. I remember Ralph playing with Deuce Spriggins at the Riverside Rancho in Glendale Ca. Ralph played good Hawaiian and Western Swing. He could really tear up the song "Little Rock Getaway". I think he also taught Steel Guitar. He had a lot of Jerry Byrd touch. |
Well if he had the Jerry Byrd touch he could have made a plank of wood strung with baling twine sound great! 
_________________
If Music Be the Food of Love, Play On. -Shakespeare
___________________________________________
1941 Ric B6 / 1948 National Dynamic / 1951 Bronson Supro / Custom teak wood Allen Melbert / Tut Taylor Dobro / Gold Tone Dojo / Martin D15S / Eastman P10 |
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Barney Roach
From:
Del Mar, California, USA
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Posted 1 Jun 2010 6:15 pm
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Hank Penny and his band, ca. 1946- at the Riverside Rancho. (Ralph pictured in the center.)
L-R: Eddie Bennett, Unknown, Fred Cianci, Unknown, Ralph Miele, Doye O'Dell, Max Fidler, Bob Caudana, Unknown.
Billy- please make any addtions / corrections. You were
there- I wasn't born yet.
The female singer is 'Carolina Cotton'.
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Steve Ahola
From:
Concord, California
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Posted 3 Jun 2010 1:07 am Presenting Version 2.0 of My Stuffed Silver Ricky
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| J. Wilson wrote: |
| Regarding the sound of the instrument in general, I thought it would have better sustain, having that horseshoe on it. So I guess with the Bakelite Ricks all that magic isn't in the horseshoe -- its the horseshoe and bakelite that make a magic combination maybe. |
Thanks for pointing that out and discussing the issue with me off-forum. I have never seen a Model B in person and in trying to eliminate all resonances I think I went overboard and basically stuffed the life out of my poor Silver Ricky. I never thought of bakelite being resonant but it evidently is; I'll have to try playing my toothbrush! 
Per our discussion I removed all of the red rags (except for the ones in the neck) and restuffed it with the lighter and fluffier white terry cloth rags. It took a few attempts to get it right. I would reinstall the pickup and then thump the top and bottom of the guitar without bothering to put the strings back on. It was still sounding a bit hollow so I would put in a few more rags. Finally I was getting some good thumps out of it. Eureka- I found it! The final touch was the crumpled newspaper right under the pickup. If you pack it too tightly with rags it will affect the pickup height adjustment, but if you leave it open you can get an unwanted resonance from it. The crumpled newspaper filled that gap nicely.
Here is the folder with all of the sound samples:
http://www.box.net/shared/jdy3fmt2ou
I really appreciate the input- otherwise I think would have left it with the red rags packed tightly. (Version 1.0 did not pass the "thump" test- when you thumped the body it was a very solid "thud" with no resonance at all.
Steve Ahola
P.S. "More Country Blues" has some lower notes in there. I have this tuned to B-D-E-G#-B-E so it doesn't go as low as open E. With accompaniment by the dancing and clicking fingerpicks.>  (I may raise the bridge a little bit but will probably use just my fingers a lot. Or try wearing my picks shorter when I play the Ricky.)
_________________
www.blueguitar.org
Recordings on electric guitar:
http://www.box.net/blue-diamonds
http://www.box.net/the-culprits
Last edited by Steve Ahola on 3 Jun 2010 6:08 pm; edited 3 times in total |
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Al Terhune
From:
Newcastle, WA
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Posted 3 Jun 2010 6:43 am
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I always approach these threads as if no one gives a hoot what I think, but I must say that the Silver Hawaiian I had sounded wonderful and rich. It was an eight-string, early single-knob model, and I took out the stuffed newspaper shreadings. The sustain it had above the 12th fret was better than most laps I've owned. I sold it because the string height above the body wasn't high enough for my clumsy picking, so I got a number of audible body ticks from my picks hitting the metal body (which I believe I hear on the sound clip posted)...
_________________
Al
My equipment:
One heck of a Wife
The ghost of a red Doberman
Several pairs of reading glasses strewn about |
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Keith Cordell
From:
San Diego
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Posted 3 Jun 2010 7:51 am
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| Never seen an 8 string in the metal bodies. I'd love to find one of those. |
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Al Terhune
From:
Newcastle, WA
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Mike Neer
From:
NJ
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Posted 3 Jun 2010 9:44 am
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Steve, if you'd consider making another recording of the Silver Hawaiian, please keep in mind that you should play something down in the lower registers. It's really hard to get a clear idea of the instrument's sound so high up the neck. Most steels don't sound all that good up there, particularly the short scale models. Just some food for thought....
_________________
Links to streaming music, websites, YouTube: Links |
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Steve Ahola
From:
Concord, California
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Posted 7 Jun 2010 10:10 am
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| Mike Neer wrote: |
| Steve, if you'd consider making another recording of the Silver Hawaiian, please keep in mind that you should play something down in the lower registers. It's really hard to get a clear idea of the instrument's sound so high up the neck. Most steels don't sound all that good up there, particularly the short scale models. Just some food for thought.... |
Mike:
Thanks for the advice! I am still figuring out what to do with the top 4 strings and have not really dealt with the low B and D on the E7th tuning at all. 
However, I just tried lowering the D to a C# for an E6/C#m7 tuning and that opens up a lot of options I was not getting with the E7th tuning. I still get the basic open E folk/blues/rock "bottleneck" tuning on the top 4 strings but the full chord has a more typical steel guitar sound. Heck- I can even play Hawaiian stuff with it (try that with a bottleneck in open E  ).
_________________
www.blueguitar.org
Recordings on electric guitar:
http://www.box.net/blue-diamonds
http://www.box.net/the-culprits |
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Ron Whitfield
From:
Kaaawa, Hawaii, USA
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Posted 7 Jun 2010 11:09 am
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| Billy Tonnesen wrote: |
| Back in the 40's in So. Calif. there was a very good Steel player named Ralph Miele who played a six string chrome (or polished) Steel. I remember Ralph playing with Deuce Spriggins at the Riverside Rancho in Glendale Ca. Ralph played good Hawaiian and Western Swing. He could really tear up the song "Little Rock Getaway". I think he also taught Steel Guitar. He had a lot of Jerry Byrd touch. |
Here's a bit of Ralph on a Ricky black crinkle fry-pan http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PboRBXbx3TQ
He comes in about 1:12. |
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J. Wilson
From:
Manitoba, Canada
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Posted 7 Jun 2010 1:41 pm
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Thanks Steve, again, for posting those sound clips! I think your Rick sound a whole lot warmer now, so your constant experimenting seems to have helped quite a bit. I look forward to other sound samples from you and anyone else on the forum that has one of these Ricks, or something similar.
_________________
If Music Be the Food of Love, Play On. -Shakespeare
___________________________________________
1941 Ric B6 / 1948 National Dynamic / 1951 Bronson Supro / Custom teak wood Allen Melbert / Tut Taylor Dobro / Gold Tone Dojo / Martin D15S / Eastman P10 |
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Steve Ahola
From:
Concord, California
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Posted 7 Jun 2010 3:18 pm
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Thanks- I may think twice about my lifelong boycott of Missouri (nothing personal- I've been boycotting 48 of the 50 states, and DC, too!)
For some samples of a 1939 Model 59 (the Silver Hawaiian's mainland cousin), check out J Dow (dow207) on eBay where he sells two book/cd courses he came up with for lap steel based on songs performed by Duane Allman and Elmore James. These are for blues using an open E tuning:
http://myworld.ebay.com/dow207
You can hear some of the songs on his page at jukeboxlive:
http://www.jukeboxalive.com/dow207
He uses his Model 59 for all of the songs except for Madison Blues and I Can't Hold Out which use a 1939 Epi Zephyr Hawaiian Electar. I got both courses for around $20 including s/h and just started working through them.
Ummm... a Model 59 is basically the same as a Silver Hawaiian except for the lack of chrome which I guess would make the tone not quite as bright- right?
I was reading the Rickenbacker book and they stopped making the metal body models because the hot lights on movie and TV stages were causing them to get out of tune. Another trivia item for your next cocktail party (huh???) is that they used metal necks on the Model B's with too many strings (8 or 10- I forget which  ).
Steve Ahola
P.S. When I searched Google Books for Ralph Meile the only thing I found was about a recording with Hank Penny for Sid Nathan in which he blew his solo. Gee, if you can't say anything nice about someone...
_________________
www.blueguitar.org
Recordings on electric guitar:
http://www.box.net/blue-diamonds
http://www.box.net/the-culprits |
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Steve Ahola
From:
Concord, California
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Posted 9 Jun 2010 12:42 am "Nashville Skyline Remix"
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This tune kept coming out of my fingers so I figured that I might as well learn it. This is the 3rd version I've uploaded here (the first two were not ready for prime time  )
http://tinyurl.com/nashville-skyline-rag
Despite the name in the link I have titled this version Nashville Skyline Remix (there is a drum pattern from Izotope iDrum in the background).
Disclaimer: I've been playing blues guitar for 45 years- this country-type lap steel stuff is completely new to me.
Steve Ahola
_________________
www.blueguitar.org
Recordings on electric guitar:
http://www.box.net/blue-diamonds
http://www.box.net/the-culprits
Last edited by Steve Ahola on 16 Jun 2010 6:05 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Robbie Daniels
From:
Casper, Wyoming, USA
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Posted 9 Jun 2010 5:49 pm
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I am very happy with the sound and tone of my Silver Hawaiian. I think I will take it with me to Joliet this year. Mine has a nice round sound. The original controls are a bit scratchy, but a foot pedal can control the volume.
_________________
Carter D12, MSA S12, 12 String Custom Made Non-Pedal, Evans FET 500LV, Evans SE200, Peavey Nashville 400, Fender Steel King |
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Steve Ahola
From:
Concord, California
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Posted 9 Jun 2010 7:50 pm Tips for scratchy controls
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| Robbie Daniels wrote: |
| I am very happy with the sound and tone of my Silver Hawaiian. I think I will take it with me to Joliet this year. Mine has a nice round sound. The original controls are a bit scratchy, but a foot pedal can control the volume. |
Robbie:
If the controls have rough spots when you are turning them, a drop of light oil on the bushing under the knob should help it turn smoother.
If the controls themselves are scratchy through the amp they can usually be cleaned and conditioned with Caig "red" and "gold" compounds respectively (DeOxit and Pro Gold).
Not to encourage anyone to do something beyond their skill set but it is fairly easy to remove the controls to clean and condition them. Once you have unstrung your strings (carefully so that you can reuse them) you can lift the pickup out after removing the 4 slotted screws. Have a rag or something ready to wrap around the pickup so it doesn't scratch the body and you might want to secure it with the blue low tack masking tape. Be sure to note which side goes where.
Remove the set screws holding the knobs which should come off fairly easily. There are large hex nuts which secure the controls. I think that it was 7/16". The control(s) should come right out; make sure that you note which one went where.
The pot in my Silver Ricky was sealed, unlike modern pots which have large slots to spray cleaner into. However, there are 4 tabs bent over which secure the cover to the pot. Carefully unbend them to remove the cover and you have full access to the inside of the control for cleaning and conditioning. If there is a notch in the cover which prevents the control from turning a full 360 degrees (like modern pots) be sure not to turn the control past its normal stops. The pot in mine had no notch or stop in the cover so that was not an issue with me, but if yours does I would suggest spraying the DeOxit cleaner on the "guts" and then putting the cover back in place as you turn the knob repeatedly for maybe 30 seconds. If there is any liquid inside tap it lightly on a rag and then use the conditioner (Pro Gold).
Put the covers back in place and plug in your steel to make sure that the controls turn smoothly and quietly. (If not you might try a second treatment.) Rebend the tabs holding the pot cover in place and put everything back together. Your Silver Hawaiian should be good for another 60 or 70 years.
Cleaning and conditioning the pots is actually better than replacing them because I really doubt that you can find a modern pot with the same taper. A modern pot will "work" but it will not have that same response as you turn it up or down.
Incidentally my 1937 has just the single control, but by turning it down it also cuts the treble so it acts as a tone control for me as well. So I suspect that cleaning your pots would make those inner between tones more available.
IMPORTANT NOTE: Collectors may frown if they know that the pots have been opened and cleaned. I guess they would rather have an untouched guitar with scratchy pots for their collection. Go figure- operating a scratchy pot is almost like running a motor with dry bearings.
And of course anytime you work on anything there is always a chance that something might go wrong, a risk that you may or may not want to take.
HTH
Steve Ahola
P.S. I loved the way the Silver Hawaiian sounded in the store or I would not have bought it. It has a great sound without doing anything at all to it. But when you have a hammer everything looks like a nail...  I imagine I will switch it back and forth every now and then. Have a good time at Joliet!
_________________
www.blueguitar.org
Recordings on electric guitar:
http://www.box.net/blue-diamonds
http://www.box.net/the-culprits |
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