| Author |
Topic: Chord Question |
John Clark
From:
Arkansas, USA
|
Posted 25 May 2010 5:37 pm |
|
| I NEED HELP NAMING A CHORD ON C6TH NECK. AT 12TH FRET STRINGS 2, 3, 4, & 5 NO PEDALS IS C6. HIT PEDAL 5 AND IT'S D9. BACK UP TO 11TH FRET WITH PEDALS 5 & 6, AND THE NOTES ARE, FROM THE 5TH STRING, F, Ab, B AND E. I THINK IT'S THE NEXT TO LAST CHORD IN THE CHORUS OF "NIGHT LIFE," IF YOU PLAY IT IN C. THANKS. |
|
|
 |
Mike Neer
From:
NJ
|
Posted 25 May 2010 5:55 pm
|
|
G13b9
_________________
Links to streaming music, websites, YouTube: Links |
|
|
|
John Clark
From:
Arkansas, USA
|
Posted 25 May 2010 6:23 pm
|
|
| THANKS MIKE. I KNOW A CHORD STRUCTURE LIKE G B D F Ab B E IS A G13 FLAT 9 BUT IF YOU WROTE A CHART FOR A PIANO PLAYER OF GUITAR PLAYER IN THE KEY OF C AND WANTED THEM TO PLAY THAT EXACT CHORD--NO G OR D NOTES--JUST F Ab B E HOW WOULD IT BE WRITTEN? JUST A THEORY QUESTION. |
|
|
|
Clete Ritta
From:
San Antonio, Texas
|
Posted 25 May 2010 7:31 pm
|
|
| John Clark wrote: |
| ..JUST F Ab B E HOW WOULD IT BE WRITTEN? |
F dim maj7 is one way to call that chord.
Clete |
|
|
|
Ryan Barwin
From:
Hamilton, Ontario, Canada
|
Posted 25 May 2010 8:20 pm
|
|
I'd write it: G13b9 (omit root & 5th)
or it could be Emaj add b9
_________________
www.pedalsteel.ca |
|
|
|
chas smith R.I.P.
From:
Encino, CA, USA
|
Posted 25 May 2010 8:28 pm
|
|
| Quote: |
| JUST F Ab B E HOW WOULD IT BE WRITTEN? JUST A THEORY QUESTION |
To add to what's been and what will be said, from a theory point of view, the F and B are a tritone that make the G7 chord (or a Db7 which can substitute for a G7). (The 2 notes that define a chord are the 3rd and 7th) And since it's most likely a G7, then the Ab is b9 and the E is a 13. G7,b9,13. It's also a Db7#9. |
|
|
|
Mike Neer
From:
NJ
|
Posted 25 May 2010 8:47 pm
|
|
No guarantee that if you just write G13b9, he will play the right voicing, so to be on the safe side, you can notate it. If not, you can also write it as E/F, which translates to E over F, but that may cause some confusion. Another way would be to write FmMaj7b5. Your best choice is to just notate it on a piece of manuscript.
_________________
Links to streaming music, websites, YouTube: Links |
|
|
|
Stuart Legg
|
Posted 26 May 2010 12:33 pm
|
|
| A chord formed by F, Ab, B & E could only be called a clam in any key. |
|
|
|
John Clark
From:
Arkansas, USA
|
Posted 26 May 2010 4:47 pm
|
|
| STUART, THE STRUCTURE MIGHT LOOK LIKE A CLAM BUT SWING PLAYERS USE THAT VOICING AS A SUB FOR THE 5 CHORD ON PROBABLY EVERY SONG THEY PLAY. I PLAY A 10 STRING UNIVERSAL WITH LIMITED 6TH PEDALS, SO MOST OF MY 6TH VOICINGS ARE ON THE HIGH STRINGS OF THE GUITAR. ALL I CAN GET OF THAT CHORD AT THE 11TH FRET ARE THOSE FOUR NOTES. F Ab B AND E. |
|
|
|
Stuart Legg
|
Posted 26 May 2010 6:26 pm
|
|
| Sorry John I spook too soon after just taking one quick glance at your chord. I saw F A# B E but pasted in your F, Ab, B, E. Ab makes a big difference. |
|
|
|
Brett Lanier
From:
Madison, TN
|
Posted 27 May 2010 12:01 pm
|
|
| This was my jazz guitar teacher's favorite chord, but claimed that a dominant chord with a natural 9 and flat 13 was of little or no use. I found a use for it once in a chord melody, but I think he's right for the most part. The natural 13, b9 is much more applicable. |
|
|
|
chas smith R.I.P.
From:
Encino, CA, USA
|
Posted 27 May 2010 3:00 pm
|
|
| Quote: |
| The natural 13, b9 is much more applicable. |
Voice leading, the b9, with the 3rd, has more "squeeze" on the root note of the I chord. Just like b7 and b13 would have on the 3rd of the I chord. |
|
|
|
Brett Lanier
From:
Madison, TN
|
Posted 27 May 2010 4:04 pm
|
|
yes, I agree.
Also, I think it's the sound of the natural 9 having to resolve down to the 5 or up the 1 that makes it a lot different and very un-jazzy (unless it's the melody). Rather than the natural 13 staying and becoming the third. |
|
|
|
Michael Sparks
From:
Houston, Texas
|
Posted 27 May 2010 9:12 pm Clam?
|
|
Not to go off on a tangent, but I've not seen the term "clam" before refering to chord structure. Can someone clue me in?
_________________
Regards, Mike "Web" Sparks
Emmons Resound 65 (any minute now...), 2017 Mullen G2, 2010 Emmons Le Grande II, 2003 Emmons Le Grande III, Emmons PP x 2, Telonics VP, Milkman 85W Pedal Steel Amp, Milkman Mini-40 |
|
|
|
Larry Bell
From:
Englewood, Florida
|
Posted 28 May 2010 4:55 am
|
|
'clam' has nothing to do with chord structure
It is colloquial for a musical mistake.
| Quote: |
The likening of a closed mouth, or the human mouth in general, to the bivalve sort of “clam” may underlie the use of “clam” to mean a missed or flubbed note, especially if the term originated in connection with wind instruments. This usage dates back to at least the early 1950s and since then has been applied to an error in any sort of musical or theatrical performance (”Bing Crosby … always said, ‘Leave the clams in, let ‘em know I’m human,’” New York Times, 1991). Perhaps the “error” sense of the term lies in the failure of one’s “clam,” or mouth, to perform correctly.
But another, and to my mind stronger, possibility is that the “mistake” sense of “clam” derives from a completely different “clam.” In the 18th century the sound of two bells (in a bell tower) rung simultaneously (usually a mistake by the bell ringer) was known as a “clam.” This “clam” was probably “echoic” in origin, intended to mimic the dissonant, unpleasant sound itself (the same way “clang” and “slam” were formed), and actually appears to be the source of our modern “clamor,” meaning a jumbled roar of noises or voices. It seems entirely logical that “clam” as a term for mistake in a bell tower could have become a generalized musicians’ term for any sort of embarrassing flub in a performance. |
FWIW
Also, FWIW, I use that altered V13 chord often. You can move it up a tritone and the top 3 strings become the full G triad (it becomes Ab B D G). John Hughey used that idea often in his wonderful approach to C6.
_________________
Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
My CD's: 'I've Got Friends in COLD Places' - 'Pedal Steel Guitar'
2021 Rittenberry S/D-12 8x7, 1976 Emmons S/D-12 7x6, 1969 Emmons S/D-12 6x6, 1971 Dobro, Quilter ToneBlock 202 TT-12 |
|
|
|
Stuart Legg
|
Posted 28 May 2010 11:53 am
|
|
My two replies here were good examples of my natural talent for clams.
An errant A# and a "spook"
I'll try to get back on topic.
If you pick with 2 fingers and a thumb you're going to have to drop too much from the structure of the chord unless you strum it which to do so would severally limit the number of places on the neck where you can accomplish this.
I think under that circumstance an arpeggio (which unlike a strum would allow you to skip over strings as you move across the neck) is the sensible way to approach any chord that requires 4 or more notes to define it. This would open up more possibilities on the neck. I think this would be especially true on the E9 PSG.
 |
|
|
|
Michael Sparks
From:
Houston, Texas
|
Posted 29 May 2010 8:58 am
|
|
Thanks, Larry....surprised I didn't know that considering the number of clams that have rolled off my fingers.
_________________
Regards, Mike "Web" Sparks
Emmons Resound 65 (any minute now...), 2017 Mullen G2, 2010 Emmons Le Grande II, 2003 Emmons Le Grande III, Emmons PP x 2, Telonics VP, Milkman 85W Pedal Steel Amp, Milkman Mini-40 |
|
|
|
