| Author |
Topic: Arlen Roth: Lap Steel Guitar -- any opinions? |
J. Wilson
From:
Manitoba, Canada
|
Posted 13 May 2010 12:28 pm |
|
I was thinking of getting this because he teaches in open E, which (for now) is my tuning. Any opinions on the value of this dvd from an instructional standpoint?
Anything better to recommend?
_________________
If Music Be the Food of Love, Play On. -Shakespeare
___________________________________________
1941 Ric B6 / 1948 National Dynamic / 1951 Bronson Supro / Custom teak wood Allen Melbert / Tut Taylor Dobro / Gold Tone Dojo / Martin D15S / Eastman P10 |
|
|
 |
Phillip Dokes
From:
Ohio, USA
|
Posted 13 May 2010 1:30 pm
|
|
Arlen has some lessons up on the Gibson website, him playing on regular guitar but in open E
And John Tuggle also has about 4-5 dvd's for Open E, like Arlen he's doing it with bottleneck.
Hope this helps |
|
|
|
Mike Neer
From:
NJ
|
Posted 13 May 2010 1:37 pm
|
|
Do you want to learn how to play steel guitar or do you want to be a stylist? There is a difference. I haven't seen the Arlen Roth video, so I don''t have an opinion on it, although it seems like he's coming from a stylist's angle, like maybe Blues/Rock.
I learned how to play starting with open E and E6 (C#m7, which is just string 2 tuned up to C#). I learned from listening to Sol Hoopii, Dick McIntire and a bunch of the Western Swing players. I already played guitar for many years and I already could play stuff in the David Lindley vein on lap steel, but that's not what I was looking for: I wanted to know how to approach playing steel from a more traditional steel player's perspective. Not saying I wanted to play that music, I just wanted to learn and then use it to go my own direction.
As has been recommended here many times, Jerry Byrd's course is very good. It teaches the basics of steel guitar in several tunings. You'll come out of it with some valuable info. There are other videos on youtube you can check out, I'm sure (and the price is right).
_________________
Links to streaming music, websites, YouTube: Links |
|
|
|
J. Wilson
From:
Manitoba, Canada
|
Posted 13 May 2010 4:31 pm
|
|
| Mike Neer wrote: |
| Do you want to learn how to play steel guitar or do you want to be a stylist? |
Not sure really. Well like you I come from other strings. I have my foundation in cello actually, and self taught bass and guitar for many years. David Lindley during his Jackson Browne years played in a style I absolutely love but I found I was having a hard time getting his sounds...(Running On Empty and a few others) and that's when I discovered that's cuz he played it all on the lap steel! So by and by I jammed around on an old Carvin student lap steel lent to me for a short time until I realized I really wanted to learn it for real. So here I am...
I guess I am first interested in the stuff Lindley did with Browne but I am also interested in the old country stuff as well. Hawaiian, less so, but I am interested enough in it to take a second look for sure.
_________________
If Music Be the Food of Love, Play On. -Shakespeare
___________________________________________
1941 Ric B6 / 1948 National Dynamic / 1951 Bronson Supro / Custom teak wood Allen Melbert / Tut Taylor Dobro / Gold Tone Dojo / Martin D15S / Eastman P10 |
|
|
|
Bill Creller
From:
Saginaw, Michigan, USA (deceased)
|
Posted 13 May 2010 4:50 pm
|
|
| I used E maj in the mid/late 40s for country music of those days, until I "discovered" C6th, which made it all easier. E is a good tuning though, and I still fool with it occasionally, and with C#m. |
|
|
|
Mike Neer
From:
NJ
|
Posted 13 May 2010 5:12 pm
|
|
| J. Wilson wrote: |
| Mike Neer wrote: |
| Do you want to learn how to play steel guitar or do you want to be a stylist? |
I guess I am first interested in the stuff Lindley did with Browne but I am also interested in the old country stuff as well. Hawaiian, less so, but I am interested enough in it to take a second look for sure. |
Many people starting off say the same thing about Hawaiian music, but that is where the technique is. Technique is such an important part of playing steel guitar that without good technique, it is very difficult to sound good at all. Technique has many elements to it, not just "chops", but it is about control--both right and left hand. If you work on a few Hawaiian tunes, or some Jerry Byrd arrangements, you will learn about control.
Having good right hand technique is very important: you need to have a good, controlled touch and a relaxed hand, even when it is executing grips. The bar hand is an area that requires the most attention because that is where most of your sound comes from. You have to learn to listen to what your sounds are telling you and correct it when you hear something wrong. Many new players don't apply enough pressure on the strings; some apply too much pressure. You have to find the balance. I don't know that many videos are going to show this kind of stuff, so you have to really focus on what you are doing and listen critically.
Good luck with whatever you choose. Play with confidence.
_________________
Links to streaming music, websites, YouTube: Links |
|
|
|
J. Wilson
From:
Manitoba, Canada
|
Posted 13 May 2010 5:17 pm
|
|
Thanks Mike! Do you feel there is a dvd teaching method I should be seeking out? Do you think the one I mentioned might be a good place to start? Now that you have said all that stuff I feel I should make a responsible choice...
_________________
If Music Be the Food of Love, Play On. -Shakespeare
___________________________________________
1941 Ric B6 / 1948 National Dynamic / 1951 Bronson Supro / Custom teak wood Allen Melbert / Tut Taylor Dobro / Gold Tone Dojo / Martin D15S / Eastman P10 |
|
|
|
Mike Neer
From:
NJ
|
Posted 13 May 2010 5:25 pm
|
|
I really can't say. Arlen Roth is not typically thought of as a steel player. For $25 or so, it's not too expensive of a gamble.
If I were to personally recommend a video, I've only seen a few, but my choice would be Herb Remington videos--he has 2 volumes:
http://www.remingtonsteelguitars.com/video.html
I have seen Vol. 2. Don't hold me to it. You can do a search here and on the old forum to see what folks have to say. Some folks like Cindy Cashdollar's set and there are others, as well.
_________________
Links to streaming music, websites, YouTube: Links |
|
|
|
Chris Battis
From:
Reno, Nevada, USA
|
Posted 13 May 2010 6:16 pm
|
|
I have the Arlen Roth dvd, though I haven't found much use for it yet. He teaches Open E in a very bluesy style, like a lapsteel adaptation of bottleneck guitar.
I like Cindy Cashdollar's set, though she moves along fairly quickly and I've found that George Piburn's "Lapsteel 101" has been easier to start out learning C6 with.
Chris |
|
|
|
J. Wilson
From:
Manitoba, Canada
|
Posted 13 May 2010 6:27 pm
|
|
Yeah Cindy's dvds were recommended to me before, however, I think she teaches in C6 and my lap steel is built for E. Not sure how to proceed... I guess I will take a look for the Herb Remington vids maybe...
_________________
If Music Be the Food of Love, Play On. -Shakespeare
___________________________________________
1941 Ric B6 / 1948 National Dynamic / 1951 Bronson Supro / Custom teak wood Allen Melbert / Tut Taylor Dobro / Gold Tone Dojo / Martin D15S / Eastman P10 |
|
|
|
Mike Neer
From:
NJ
|
Posted 13 May 2010 6:37 pm
|
|
| J. Wilson wrote: |
| ...I think she teaches in C6 and my lap steel is built for E. Not sure how to proceed... |
I'm not sure what you mean by that. You could easily put a C6 set on your steel.
The problem with open E tuning, unless you're in a band and need to do some accompaniment on the bass strings, the intervals are too far apart and don't lend themselves that well to the steel guitar. An E tuning is mostly made up of 4ths and a 5th, with a maj 3rd and a min 3rd. The low E should really be replaced by a G#, or in a perfect world (apart from C6) you would use E9 (E B G# F# D B). Still I recommend using C6--you will learn it in a few months and you won't be sorry--you can play ANYTHING on it, believe me.
Aren't you sorry you asked?  Anyway, I don't want to discourage you at all, I'm just trying to save you a little trouble and time. At some point down the road, you may want to change.
_________________
Links to streaming music, websites, YouTube: Links |
|
|
|
Don Sutley
From:
Pensacola, FL
|
Posted 13 May 2010 6:54 pm
|
|
I had the chance to review this video ten years ago:
http://steelguitarforum.com/Forum2/HTML/001087.html
Unfortunately, I didn't really stick with the lap steel long after that. I got into other instruments. Ironically, I rekindled my interest and just received a set of strings for open E tuning I ordered from b0b this week.
I never ended up buying the video. I liked it, but it's really geared more for rock and blues playing. As I recall, it's more of a "here's a lick in G" type video than a methodology. It's also been a long time since I've seen it and I can't remember everything about it. I'd still like to have a copy of it, though.
Good luck,
Don |
|
|
|
J. Wilson
From:
Manitoba, Canada
|
Posted 14 May 2010 6:02 am
|
|
[quote="Mike Neer"]
| J. Wilson wrote: |
| ...I think she teaches in C6 and my lap steel is built for E. Not sure how to proceed... |
I'm not sure what you mean by that. You could easily put a C6 set on your steel.
{/quote]
Well the steel is a custom job and I had a custom roller nut made. The luthier told me that it is designed ideally for only a few tunings. I don't know much about the physics of it all.... but I am assuming it comes down to the mechanics. Please let me know if this isn't the case... because I am interested in C6.
_________________
If Music Be the Food of Love, Play On. -Shakespeare
___________________________________________
1941 Ric B6 / 1948 National Dynamic / 1951 Bronson Supro / Custom teak wood Allen Melbert / Tut Taylor Dobro / Gold Tone Dojo / Martin D15S / Eastman P10 |
|
|
|
Tom Pettingill
From:
California, USA (deceased)
|
Posted 14 May 2010 6:50 am
|
|
| Quote: |
| the steel is a custom job and I had a custom roller nut made. The luthier told me that it is designed ideally for only a few tunings |
Do you have a bender system or a tuning changer? Roller nuts are not needed or actually beneficial otherwise.
On your builders comment, it sounds like the nut has gauged rollers in it. The main issue from going from an E set of strings to a C6 set is your #6 string is going to sit low in the nut in relation to the other 5. An E set has anywhere from a 54 - 58 #6 and a C6 set will be around a 36. That said, there is no reason you could not toss a C6 set on it and give it a try. If C6 turns out to be something you like, then its always possible to have a new nut made or do like some and get a second steel setup and voiced for your prefered alternate tunings.
_________________
Some misc pics of my hand crafted steels
Follow me on Facebook here |
|
|
|
Mike Neer
From:
NJ
|
Posted 14 May 2010 7:02 am
|
|
Don't get me wrong, E is great tuning. I know that tuning inside and out and can do a lot with it, especially for old time Hawaiian and even Rock, but overall, I think one can get more mileage out of a tuning like C6/A7.
_________________
Links to streaming music, websites, YouTube: Links |
|
|
|
Twayn Williams
From:
Portland, OR
|
Posted 14 May 2010 9:12 am
|
|
I found trying to learn Hawaiian very difficult, but learning swing to be easy. Go figger.
I'd recommend the Cindy Cashdollar vids.
_________________
Primitive Utility Steel |
|
|
|
J. Wilson
From:
Manitoba, Canada
|
Posted 14 May 2010 12:38 pm
|
|
| Tom Pettingill wrote: |
Do you have a bender system or a tuning changer? Roller nuts are not needed or actually beneficial otherwise. |
Good call Tom! I do, indeed, have a Duesenberg multibender bridge on my lap steel.
Does the fact that the 6th string sits low in the roller affect the sound of it? I got the impression it might...
I like the idea of getting a second lap steel too. I may tool around in E for a while and then get another lap steel for C6. Altho from what you fellows are saying here I guess it may have been better to do it the other way around.
_________________
If Music Be the Food of Love, Play On. -Shakespeare
___________________________________________
1941 Ric B6 / 1948 National Dynamic / 1951 Bronson Supro / Custom teak wood Allen Melbert / Tut Taylor Dobro / Gold Tone Dojo / Martin D15S / Eastman P10 |
|
|
|
Tom Gray
From:
Decatur, GA
|
Posted 14 May 2010 2:30 pm
|
|
As I remember, the Jerry Byrd course starts in A tuning, then covers E and C# minor and C# minor 9th before finally getting to C6 in Book Two. Seems sensible to me. Some on this forum have suggested that a beginner start with a double-8 in tightly voiced tunings. But that can be overwhelming, don't you think?
There's a lot you can get out of E that you will never get from C6 and vice versa. Each tuning has its own strengths and its own cliches. It's up to each player to get beyond the cliches and pull out some real music.
_________________
www.tomgraymusic.com |
|
|
|
Gary Stevenson
From:
Northern New York,USA
|
Posted 14 May 2010 6:42 pm question for Mike Neer
|
|
| I take it you started with open E and then switched to C6. Did you find the switch a big learning curve. I use open E and have tried to learn C6, but seem to have a problem getting my head around it. Did I not put enough time in to it.I play with a rock jam band and have had some luck doing lead work in the open E, but I see what your saying about the intervals. Seems like I have a difficult time finding the melody at times.Maybe my musical talents are lacking, but C6 seemed to leave me lost.Hope you can shed some light on this. |
|
|
|
J. Wilson
From:
Manitoba, Canada
|
Posted 14 May 2010 7:59 pm
|
|
I am not completely sure but I think it has more to do with the 'approach' to the tuning. Its a paradigm shift.
_________________
If Music Be the Food of Love, Play On. -Shakespeare
___________________________________________
1941 Ric B6 / 1948 National Dynamic / 1951 Bronson Supro / Custom teak wood Allen Melbert / Tut Taylor Dobro / Gold Tone Dojo / Martin D15S / Eastman P10 |
|
|
|
Mike Neer
From:
NJ
|
Posted 14 May 2010 8:40 pm
|
|
Gary, over the next few days I am going to write a blog article on the topic of C6 for the hopelessly entangled guitarist. Hopefully, it will shed some light on it and open up a few doors. I'll post a link when I've finished.
_________________
Links to streaming music, websites, YouTube: Links |
|
|
|
