Aluminum rod

Larry Bressington · From: Nebraska

I added some extra pulls to my MSA, with some 1/8th Aluminum rod from the welding shop.
It is very easy to work with, bend, Cut a thread, and i haven't seen any set backs with it at this time.
I am thinking about kiting out both my steels with Alloy rod all matching sizes,[ at present it's got some mixed rod sizes] and was wondering if anybody has a negative point about the ALUMINUM rod, before i buy a case load and do all that work.

What do you think boys, 'Disaster waiting to happen'??

OR does it have to be stainless rod??

Thanks kids, Talk soon.
_________________
A.K.A Chappy.

Earnest Bovine · From: Los Angeles CA USA

I see here
http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/linear-expansion-coefficients-d_95.html
that aluminum will shrink about twice as much as steel when it gets cold. An ideal pull rod would stay at a constant length.

Jack Stoner · From: Kansas City, MO

Franklin's use 1/8" aluminum for the pull rods. Except for one show, I've never really had a problem with the aluminum rod expansion and contraction. On the one occasion it was sitting on the stage, originally in the shade but by the time we went on the sun had moved and was beating down on it. When it was our time on the show, it had heated up considerably and all the changes were off (and I had less than 10 minutes to try and retune everything).

Jim Palenscar · From: Oceanside, Calif, USA

There are 3 manufacturers that have used aluminum pull rods that I am aware of- MSA in the SS models, Franklin and Zum. I'm not aware if Bruce or Paul are still using aluminum for pull rods or the reason behind the selection of that material but all of the designers of these instruments are held very highly in my regard and there must have been a good reason for that selection. While it is true that the coefficient of expansion is higher for aluminum than steel I would wager that any guitar in the sun would go out of tune in a hurry primarily due to the effect of heat on the strings as opposed to the effect on the pull rods underneath. That being said, it sure doesn't take much movement for any part of the instrument to create tuning challenges.

Jack Stoner · From: Kansas City, MO

In my case, the guitar had to be retuned with the tuning keys but after that all the changes (raise and lower) were out. I had time to retune the A and B pedal raises and the E string lowers and the rest I had to "wing" as I ran out of time.

We had to be at the job at 9am for a soundcheck and then go on at noon.

Paul is still using the aluminum rod in his guitars. Except for the neck mounting at the changer that is the only change of the design from the start.

Jim Palenscar · From: Oceanside, Calif, USA

Thanks Jack- I kinda figured that (about the changes being out)after I posted.

John Billings · From: Ohio, USA

My '67 R and B ShoBud has aluminum rods also.

Benton Allen · From: Muscle Shoals, Alabama, USA

My 1969 Sho-Bud Crossover has aluminum rods. Never been a problem.

Jim Palenscar · From: Oceanside, Calif, USA

Now that I think about it I've a couple of older Shobuds here that have aluminum rods as well- not sure how long they did that for.

Larry Bressington · From: Nebraska

Thanks fellows, i diden't know that some of those guitars actually had alloy at one time.
_________________
A.K.A Chappy.

John Billings · From: Ohio, USA

Larry,
One thing to consider, straight pulls, at least on the ShoBuds. No bends to leapfrog over other parts that might be in the way. Al might not perform well in a case where bends are needed. I don't really know that from experience, just hazarding a guess. Of course, there are also different alloys that are stronger. The rods on my Buds are pretty soft.

Larry Bressington · From: Nebraska

Thanks john, i am currently exsperimenting with my MSA which has straight rods as you know, i may do the bud if it's a good idea, and as you know they have the 90 degree bend for the bell crank hook up.
_________________
A.K.A Chappy.

Jack Stoner · From: Kansas City, MO

I have a "bent" pull rod on my Franklin. I have one puller that is used to pull both the 1st string and 2nd string raises (on the E9th neck). The rod for the 1st string is bent so it will reach the puller that is in line with the 2nd string.

Jerry Overstreet · From: Louisville Ky

My Zum has several bent rods. They are aluminum with a steel roll pin for a keeper. I can't tell any difference in tuning variations due to environment in this guitar v around a dozen other brands I've owned.

One thing is certain, if you're like me and use a loaded up guitar with a lot of pulls, using al will help reduce the overall weight of your axe.

I couldn't find al rods when I redid the coped on my guitar so used steel welding rods. Later found out I can buy 6061 al .125 rods from Metal Depot in Winchester Ky for cheap, just 75 or so miles from me. They get you on the shipping though. About $18 for a dozen rods.

I'll check around town for welding shops that carry al rods or maybe take a run down to Winchester and pick up a few dozen pieces.

Tony Glassman · From: The Great Northwest

Jim Palenscar · From: Oceanside, Calif, USA

There is almost no way to "grind a flat spot" on a .125" rod and still have enough left to hold a .0625" pin on both sides of what's left because as it is there is only .0315" left on each side. Generally a jig is used.

Jerry Overstreet · From: Louisville Ky

No Tony, I didn't try to use the same configuration on the steel ones. I used many of the original rods but had to bend, cut and thread some.

As I stated, I used steel rods for the other ones. I don't have precise machinery to drill these holes accurately, so I ground down the end of the steel rods to fit the comb pullers and put a 90 degree bend on the few that I had to use. I think there are only 3 or 4 of the steel ones.

If I decide to change them out to the aluminum ones, I will fab a jig of some sort for the drill press, or perhaps design another method 'cause I don't think the aluminum rods will withstand bending to 90 degrees.

Not factory, but they're still working fine after 3 years with no problems.

The reason for the sharp bends in the 2 you see here, is that I ran out of bellcranks and used just the one for both of the pulls.

Larry Bressington · From: Nebraska

I bought a 3LB pack of alloy 3 ft rods for $22.00 at Linweld welding shop last week, he had 1/8 which is fine for the MSA, thats what M.S.A used at that time.

Sho-bud has a problem;
3/32nd is too small---- and 1/8th is too big.
I think it is either 5/32 or 7/64, it's been a chore trying to match that size up.

Does anybody know the exact diameter they used in 1983- ish??

I noticed that 'George L' Offers 'tuning nuts' for 3/32 and 1/8th but no other sizes mentioned and it's not either on this one!
_________________
A.K.A Chappy.

Jim Palenscar · From: Oceanside, Calif, USA

7/64 is common- .109"

Christopher Hillman · From: Manchester, UK

Is it common for pull rods to bend? I seem to have a couple on my Excel. the high G# has a bend in it close to the changer and i noticed a new one starting to bend the other day. Is there an easy and proper way to straighten them out?

Jim Palenscar · From: Oceanside, Calif, USA

In general the pull rods won't bend if the pull is straight as there is no stress causing them to bend and, most of the time during assembly, attempts are made to keep all pulls straight as it makes for a tighter feeling guitar. That being said- there are times when bending a rod is unavoidable when there is an obstruction in line (ie.- a knee lever, etc.). There are rare occasions when I will bend one to intentionally soften/lengthen the throw of a pull in order to achieve proper timing with the other pulls on that particular pedal or lever. Most bends are done slowly as opposed to right angles.

Ransom Beers · Posted 30 Dec 2011 12:18 pm

3/32 welding rods is whats on my BSG,Don uses them on all his BSG guitars & I'm thinking they are threaded to 6-40 thrd.Since I retired from machining I've sold all my measuring tools so I'm just guessing.

If you have an Orschlien's farm supply store near they sell welding rods in 3/32 & 1/8 in. size.I have used some keepers that just press onto 1/8 in. rods.That's what I used when I rebuilt a Carter Starter.

Jerry Overstreet · From: Louisville Ky

I think you mean 4-40. 6-40 will slide right over a 3/32 rod. [.09375].

Martin Weenick · From: Lecanto, FL, USA

Go to "onlinemetals.com" or "Speedymetals.com" and you can buy 6061 aluminum rod in 1/8 inch for almost nothing. A lot cheaper than welding rod. I buy all my metals from both of them. Martin.
_________________
Several custom steels. NV-112 Boss DD-7

Ransom Beers · Posted 30 Dec 2011 1:17 pm

yeah,You're right Jerry,it's been a long time since I was in a shop,kinda forget stuff if I'm not involved all the time.Anyway hope this fellow gets his problem taken care of.

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