| Author |
Topic: Advice sought on fingerpicks |
Graeme Jaye
From:
Spain
|
Posted 1 May 2010 2:48 am |
|
Hi guys.
I'm a new member and I have just bought my very first pedal steel. I have played plectum guitar for years, but have never used any picking style.
I am having a real problem with fingerpicks. I've tried using the ones that came with the psg (two metal Dunlop and plastic thumbpick) but I don't seem to be able to get my fingers and thumb close enough together without them 'locking up'. I've also tried using a flat pick, with the metal picks on the second and third fingers, but that seems to be no better.
I get my best results without using picks at all - but my nails are fairly short (slightly below the level of the flesh) so I'm not getting much in the way of attack.
I've been looking at the Alaska Piks - http://www.alaskapik.com/index.php - as these look promising.
I have ordered some (will take a while to get here) and was wondering if anyone has any other ideas I might experiment with?
_________________
Graeme
Some of my music here |
|
|
 |
Chris Dorch
From:
Wisconsin, USA
|
Posted 1 May 2010 4:50 am
|
|
While I don't have any experience with the picks you ordered, I can tell you that I had loads of problems with picks as well when I first started. It took about a year or so before one night I could magically play with picks... Honestly, it was magic because I wasn't playing with picks at all when I thought about giving them a try. I can only surmize that during the time before I started using them, my hand needed to become used to playing the strings and finding their places. Or, it was magic.
There are quite a few people who don't use picks at all... Perhaps you'll become one of those as well. The only advice I can give is, don't let the picks come in between you and learning how to play the steel.
Best of luck.. |
|
|
|
Graeme Jaye
From:
Spain
|
Posted 1 May 2010 9:23 am
|
|
| Chris Dorch wrote: |
| It took about a year or so before one night I could magically play with picks... Honestly, it was magic because I wasn't playing with picks at all when I thought about giving them a try. I can only surmize that during the time before I started using them, my hand needed to become used to playing the strings and finding their places. |
Maybe there's something in what you are saying and that maybe I should be just using my fingers while I'm trying to learn where they should be. Not being used to picking at all is proving a major disadvantage at the moment.
| Chris Dorch wrote: |
| There are quite a few people who don't use picks at all... Perhaps you'll become one of those as well. The only advice I can give is, don't let the picks come in between you and learning how to play the steel. |
For the moment, I think I'm going to work on using my fingers alone, without the aid of picks. One good thing about that, I'll never lose them, or have someone tread on them  . When the Alaska Piks get here, I'll see how they go.
I'm not going to get discouraged yet, but it is the right hand I am having most trouble with - and it seems to be the area where least is said about it.
| Chris Dorch wrote: |
| Best of luck.. |
It's not luck I need, but a few more years . I just hope there are enough left for me to get to a barely competent level.
_________________
Graeme
Some of my music here |
|
|
|
Reed Ohrbom
From:
Hemet, California, USA
|
Posted 1 May 2010 10:07 am Right Hand Technique & Picks
|
|
Hi Graeme; I relate to everything you've said. I too find my plain fingers to be much more "in touch" with the strings, compared to when I put picks on. I assume that dexterity with picks will come later, and right now I play a lot without picks, but then I always put in some time with the picks on, to start the "muscle memory" process of getting my hands and brain to feel as if the picks were invisible, just part of my fingers. I assume that will happen, kind of like magic, at some point, as was mentioned.
I've also found that fiddling around with all aspect of the fit and shape, and angle of the picks had a big effect on how easily and successfully I can use the picks. See another recent thread about bending and shape of fingerpicks.
But those alaskapics look very interesting, and might be just what you and others, maybe me too, find to be perfect.
From what I've read several times here on the Forum, Jeff Newmans course called "Right Hand Alpha" is highly recommended, and I plan on getting that for myself in the near future. Seems like you couldn't go wrong if you could get yourself a copy of this course. (I think it's a book and DVD, or CD, not sure)
And, like you, I've played 6 string for many years, but just started PSG a few months ago, and just turned 60. I wish I had started PSG so many years ago, but, what can we do but "take it from here" 
Don't get discouraged. Just sit down and play open strings, just to hear them ring. Hit a few pedals and knees to pull some bends and lowers. Sends me off on a trip everytime. Reed. |
|
|
|
Ronnie Boettcher
From:
Brunswick Ohio, USA
|
Posted 1 May 2010 11:49 am
|
|
Could you describe to me what "LOCKING UP" means. then we can go from there. Is it the picks hitting together somehow, or the bands that wrap around your fingers. Als o describe the thumb pick when it is on your thumb.
_________________
Sho-Bud LDG, Martin D28, Ome trilogy 5 string banjo, Ibanez 4-string bass, dobro, fiddle, and a tubal cain. Life Member of AFM local 142 |
|
|
|
Calvin Walley
From:
colorado city colorado, USA
|
Posted 1 May 2010 12:49 pm
|
|
put your picks on and wear them 24/7 ( or close as you can to it) before you know it the picks will become 2nd nature to you !!! you won't even think about them anymore ..thats the way i did it ...just my 2 cents
_________________
proud parent of a sailor
Mullen SD-10 /nashville 400
gotta love a Mullen!!!
Guitars that i have owned in order are :
Mullen SD-10,Simmons SD-10,Mullen SD-10,Zum stage one,Carter starter,
Sho-Bud Mavrick |
|
|
|
Reed Ohrbom
From:
Hemet, California, USA
|
Posted 1 May 2010 1:15 pm
|
|
Xlnt idea Calvin; One question though; Can I take them off when I go out on a date ???  (Like that's ever going to happen anyway  ) |
|
|
|
Bob Kagy
From:
Lafayette, CO USA
|
Posted 1 May 2010 1:16 pm
|
|
The flares that Dunlop have on the wraparound keepers can cause that lockup symptom you described. Some players can use them with their picking style, others can't. I've had a similar problem with them; they're very comfortable, but I'd recommend some metal picks with plain wraparounds like National, Showcase 41's or the Jeff Newman fingerpicks.
The recommendation for getting the Right Hand Alpha course from Jeff Newman's catalog is a good one. It helped me immensely and many people swear by it. You can find it here:
www.jeffran.com
It's listed under Video Courses, only $35. The 1-800 number listed may be out of service; you can get Fran on the other land line number listed.
Good luck with your playing and picking. |
|
|
|
Calvin Walley
From:
colorado city colorado, USA
|
Posted 1 May 2010 1:21 pm
|
|
no leave them on , if you use them just right on a date, amazing things can happen.... 
_________________
proud parent of a sailor
Mullen SD-10 /nashville 400
gotta love a Mullen!!!
Guitars that i have owned in order are :
Mullen SD-10,Simmons SD-10,Mullen SD-10,Zum stage one,Carter starter,
Sho-Bud Mavrick |
|
|
|
John Billings
From:
Ohio, USA
|
Posted 1 May 2010 2:47 pm
|
|
| Uh,,,, Are you sure you're putting them on correctly? The Alaskapiks are meant to emulate a fingernail. Metal picks are supposed to be worn on the fleshy side of your finger, not the nail side. Could that be the problem? |
|
|
|
Graeme Jaye
From:
Spain
|
Posted 1 May 2010 3:22 pm Re: Right Hand Technique & Picks
|
|
| Reed Ohrbom wrote: |
| ....like you, I've played 6 string for many years, but just started PSG a few months ago, and just turned 60. I wish I had started PSG so many years ago, but, what can we do but "take it from here" |
I'm 67 - so you have a few years more than me to get it right. I do have one major advantage, there's a bunch of muso's around here who would be happy to let me jam with them. Nothing like playing with others to make one work at it. To be honest, they're not very good, but that's probably just as well at this stage in the game .
_________________
Graeme
Some of my music here |
|
|
|
Graeme Jaye
From:
Spain
|
Posted 1 May 2010 3:25 pm
|
|
| Ronnie Boettcher wrote: |
| Could you describe to me what "LOCKING UP" means. then we can go from there. Is it the picks hitting together somehow, or the bands that wrap around your fingers. Als o describe the thumb pick when it is on your thumb. |
Yes, it's mainly the fingerpicks hitting together or, alternatively, hitting the wrong string altogether - I never seem to know where they are (unlike my plain fingers).
The thumbpick lies parallel to the base of the thumbnail - pretty much where I see most users wearing it. I don't have anything like as much problem with the thumbpick.
_________________
Graeme
Some of my music here |
|
|
|
Graeme Jaye
From:
Spain
|
Posted 1 May 2010 3:32 pm
|
|
| Bob Kagy wrote: |
| ...I'd recommend some metal picks with plain wraparounds like National, Showcase 41's or the Jeff Newman fingerpicks. |
I'm in the process of finding and ordering different styles. I can't buy any of this stuff locally, so it takes a while for things to get here.
| Bob Kagy wrote: |
| The recommendation for getting the Right Hand Alpha course from Jeff Newman's catalog is a good one. It helped me immensely and many people swear by it..... |
Yes, it seems like a good idea. It's been recommended to me by several people and I shall definitely be ordering a copy.
| Bob Kagy wrote: |
| The 1-800 number listed may be out of service; you can get Fran on the other land line number listed. |
1-800 numbers won't work from Spain, so it's a problem I'm used to.
_________________
Graeme
Some of my music here |
|
|
|
Will Hesch
From:
Atascadero, California, USA
|
Posted 1 May 2010 4:06 pm
|
|
Graeme, thanks for posting the link to Alaska Picks, they look very cool! I like how they're anatomically close to where you finger/thumb nails would naturally be. I just purchased my first PS but have finger-picked guitar for over 40 years. The closer spacing of the PS will eliminate the "bare" finger picking I'm afraid, but those Alaska Picks might just be the cat's meow, Thanks again, Will
_________________
"wouldn't you rather be fishing?"
www.centralcoastbassfishing.com
www.bac-rac.com
www.coolfoot.biz
www.mend-it.com |
|
|
|
Chris Dorch
From:
Wisconsin, USA
|
Posted 1 May 2010 5:57 pm
|
|
| Will Hesch wrote: |
| The closer spacing of the PS will eliminate the "bare" finger picking I'm afraid |
Tell that to all the forum members who have been playing without picks for years, if not decades... |
|
|
|
Graeme Jaye
From:
Spain
|
Posted 1 May 2010 6:41 pm
|
|
| Will Hesch wrote: |
| Graeme, thanks for posting the link to Alaska Picks, they look very cool! I like how they're anatomically close to where you finger/thumb nails would naturally be. |
Yes - that's the feature that appealed to me. They are very similar to the unhas used by Portuguese guitarists, but I can't find anyone who sells those - I rather suspect they make their own.
| Will Hesch wrote: |
| I just purchased my first PS but have finger-picked guitar for over 40 years. |
My basic problem (I suspect) is that I have never fingerpicked, just plectrum style. You start with a major advantage over someone like me.
| Will Hesch wrote: |
| The closer spacing of the PS will eliminate the "bare" finger picking I'm afraid |
I've been using my bare fingers, more than anything else, up to now. I haven't found the string spacing a problem (but then, I'm used to solid electric guitars, where I suspect you have been playing acoustics with a wider string spacing.
As Chris Dorch as said, there are a lot of PSG players who don't use picks, so it's obviously possible .
_________________
Graeme
Some of my music here |
|
|
|
Chris Dorch
From:
Wisconsin, USA
|
|
|
|
Clete Ritta
From:
San Antonio, Texas
|
Posted 1 May 2010 8:40 pm
|
|
How the heck do I use fingerpicks?
A quote from that thread.
| Bill Hatcher wrote: |
Are you now using your nails or the flesh to attack the strings?
If you are using the flesh, you can do this...your sound will be very mellow and unlike 99% of what you hear other steelers sound like.
If you are using your nails, you will eat them up very quickly and then you will be frustrated in getting a good tone on the steel AND on the guitar.
There is a pic I use with my nails called the ALASKA Pik. It clips under your existing nail. Works nicely for me. Here is a link. You have to trim these with nail clippers and then file them to your specs.
http://www.alaskapik.com/
|
| John Billings wrote: |
| Uh,,,, Are you sure you're putting them on correctly? The Alaskapiks are meant to emulate a fingernail. Metal picks are supposed to be worn on the fleshy side of your finger, not the nail side. Could that be the problem? |
I had the same initial impression John. Many folk (including me) initially put them on backward. The rounded metal part of the fingerpick fits on the fleshy part of the fingertip (to protect the finger from the string), and the tabs are bent to size to fit over the back of each fingernail.
How the heck do I wear fingerpicks?
I paint one red and leave one black, but I'm starting to use 3 picks so I need another color, maybe gold.
Fingerpick Tutorial Here
These are plastic, but the theory is the same.
Clete |
|
|
|
Graeme Jaye
From:
Spain
|
Posted 1 May 2010 8:56 pm
|
|
| John Billings wrote: |
| Uh,,,, Are you sure you're putting them on correctly? The Alaskapiks are meant to emulate a fingernail. Metal picks are supposed to be worn on the fleshy side of your finger, not the nail side. Could that be the problem? |
No - I do know how they are supposed to be worn - it's just alien to me:) .
_________________
Graeme
Some of my music here |
|
|
|
Gianni Gori
From:
Livorno, Italy
|
Posted 2 May 2010 12:36 am
|
|
As an absolute beginner on pedal steel guitar, after 30 years spent on guitars, I didn't feel comfortable with fingerpicks. But I have always thought that if all the other players were using them I just needed some "pain" and practice to get used to them.
And the result was worth the patience...
Using a different kind of picks just because you're not yet comfortable with the "right" picks may not be the best way to learn your new instrument.
As Eddie Van Halen used to say (talking about his "revolutionary" tapping technique) "you hafta know the rules before you can break them!"
Right hand techniques are not that easy at first. It just takes the time to learn them.
Just hold on for a while and you may even love fingerpicks |
|
|
|
Christopher Woitach
From:
Portland, Oregon, USA
|
Posted 2 May 2010 9:38 pm from another six string player
|
|
I have played guitar for 35 years - I use a flatpick and fingers. When I started playing the PSG, I tried fingerpicks - HATED them, always have for six string. I started using bare fingers, which felt better. Then I A/B tested picks vs. bare fingers, and the tone difference was dramatic, at least on my instrument. So, I sucked it up and started using a thumbpick and three fingerpicks. I practice for several hours most days, and have gotten very used to them.
A lot of people use no picks, and I'm surprised to find I'm not one of them...
_________________
Christopher Woitach
cw@affmusic.com
www.affmusic.com |
|
|
|
Dave Magram
From:
San Jose, California, USA
|
Posted 3 May 2010 9:26 am How the pros shape their picking hand
|
|
| [Oops- I posted this in the wrong thread! I meant to post it in response to John Scanlon's question.] |
|
|
|
Arne Odegard
From:
Norway
|
Posted 4 May 2010 12:03 am
|
|
I'm by all means no expert, I've only been playing pedal steel for two years and I remember how awkward finger picks felt for me. Keep the picks on, you'll get use to them in no time. Where ever I go I buy new picks just to try them out. The ones that I've found fit me the best are the flared Dunlops. I bend my picks to closely follow the curve of my finger and stick out only few millimeters from the tips of my fingers. This helps me from getting tangled up in the strings. You have to bend them a bit and you don't want them too tight. Just snug.
I also like the Dunlop metal thumb pick. The shorter pick gave me more accuracy than the longer plastic picks. The longer the picks the more I stumbled on the strings. They gave me a more uniformed sound too. If you like plastic you can file them down a bit. Believe me I never thought I'd get used to finger picks but I kept them on and it only took me a couple of weeks to get used to. Now I'm working on picking up my tone bar, doesn't seem possible, but I'm going to keep trying ....
Best regards
Arne |
|
|
|
Graeme Jaye
From:
Spain
|
Posted 4 May 2010 9:31 am
|
|
Thanks Arne - and everyone else. I'll keep trying with the picks and see if I can get my act together.
As it happens, this morning I had to go to a city which does have a half-way decent music shop (although they know nothing about PSG's). While I was there, I raided their plectrum box and bought a couple of everything in sight - trying that lot out should keep me occupied for a while.
_________________
Graeme
Some of my music here |
|
|
|
Graeme Jaye
From:
Spain
|
Posted 14 May 2010 3:21 am
|
|
Quick update:
A selection of metal and plastic picks arrived from Alaska a couple of days ago and I've been playing around with them. I really like this design, feels much more natural to me than anything else I have tried so far.
The metal ones fit under the nail better, but you need to work really hard to bend them to a comfortalble shape, I'm still working on that .
The plastic ones seem to work well, without any modification but, because of their thickness, I have a problem with fitting them under the nail. I usually keep my nails quite short, as they tend to break, but I'm going to let them grow a little and see if that helps.
I found the thumbpick (both metal and plastic) really odd to wear and use. Basically, unless you hold the right hand in a 'claw like' position (as I have seen some players do) you end up striking the string at a very oblique angle. Net result - my personal preference is a combination of standard type plastic thumbpick, with the Alaska's on the first and second fingers.
This still feels odd to me, but that's due to my inexperience in using any sort of pick. On balance, this is certainly the nearest to using anadorned fingers I have found so far.
_________________
Graeme
Some of my music here |
|
|
|
