Noisy pedal movements from pick-up

David Hartley · Posted 7 Apr 2010 6:55 am

Hi, I have just put a new rewound pick-up on my little pro 1, I can hear the pedals coming through the amp from the pick-up. Its not bad but is there a way of eliminating it. It must be the long screws going through the PU into the body of the guitar. I thought of glueing it on a rubber pad? Any ideas?

David

Bent Romnes · From: London,Ontario, Canada

David, it sounds like you might have got yourself a microphonic pickup. This is caused by wires in the coil rubbing together, and the pup actually working like a mike. The the pup is "potted" or soaked in melted wax during the manufacturing process to remedy this problem.
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David Hartley · Posted 7 Apr 2010 7:55 am **hi bent**

its a newley rewound one and its the same as the one i took off

Marvin Born · From: Ohio, USA

The new pickup could have more output than the old one. If your amp has both volume and master gain controls or similar names. Try turning down the input volume which will lower the sensitivity of the pick up and then turn up the master gain to the desired sound level for playing.

Marvin

Bent Romnes · From: London,Ontario, Canada

David Hartley · Posted 7 Apr 2010 8:49 am hi

Marvin, I am going to try that right now......let you know in a minute how I got on....David

David Hartley · Posted 7 Apr 2010 9:22 am Ok

Hi Bent, Hi Marvin. I just been out there playing it. I tried your idea Marvin, and it didn't really work. Although the Amp sounded better with the input gain on 2 and master on 6.. (Evans).... Bent, you maybe right. If I tap, even VERY gently on the PU with my finger it picks it up.. This is the reason I got a rewound pu because the old one was like this. I really have spent hours getting this guitar tweaked up with very little slack on the rods an correct pulls on all the raises and lowers etc. One thing I have noticed, the pedal travel stops ..... I seem to remember, my old Super-pro has little ends (made of nylon or plastic of some sort) on the ends of these adjustment screws. This guitar has just metal to metal if you know what I mean. It seems a shame, Cos it plays so well. I will always hear this noise, Fran said she couldn't notice it at a gig last week.. but I always will. I am beginning to think that Bent is right. This PU seems really lively, it has a lot of gain.. I might take my old banjo to bits and turn it into a Ped-anjo! Any suggestions please, any donations of PU's welcome too! Smile

Chris Johnson · From: USA

Single coils typically tend to be more microphonic than Buckers (excluding age). I have a wallace true-tone that picks up some pedal/body noise on occasion.

I would suggest putting in a humbucker. You cant go wrong with a George-L or Lawrence (mixed reviews on the alumitone) for the reason that somewhat microphonic S.C. also tend to show their TRUE colors in the studio and on stage.

Roger Rettig · From: Naples, FL

David

That was a constant problem on two of the three ZBs I owned. They were single-coils, of course, and any noise from the undercarriage - including the pedal-bar - would transmit to some extent through the pick-ups.
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Roger Rettig: Emmons D10, B-bender Teles and Martins - and, at last, a Gibson Super 400!
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David Nugent · From: Gum Spring, Va.

David...Try speaking directly into the pickup and notice if you hear any response coming through the amp, if not the pickup may be fine (just very sensitive). Insulating the pickup from the body may lessen the problem.

Bent Romnes · From: London,Ontario, Canada

David, Single coils have one sound and humbuckers have another. If it is the original sound you are after then you might better stick with single coil.

Some microphonics might always be present(depending on potting).

What you say about metal to metal in the stops etc..you might really notice noise seeing you are used to the Rains with its nylon "padding"
I found it important to dampen mechanical noise via plastic tips on the pedal/KL stops, as well as felt padding where any metal hits the wood body, like the reversing mechanism for the right moving KL's
Can you get hold of nylon tubes that will fit over the screw?
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Peter den Hartogh · From: Cape Town, South Africa

I just put an Alumitone on my Professional and since then I can hear the pedals and also "body tapping".

I think it may be the long screws going through the pickup into the body. Shouting into the pickup gives very little response in the amp.

Just loosening the screws did not help much, so I need to try to isolate the pickup properly.

Another reason for the pedal noise might be the electrical properties of different metals touching each other as you press the pedals. (This guitar is a rack and barrel.)
The reason I suspect this is that it makes no difference if I play the pedals hard or soft. It is just the onset of the activation of the pedals I hear. I don't hear the stops since I used plastic buffers (plastic ends of BIC ballpoint pens).

I need to experiment with a different type of (electrical) isolation.
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1977 Sho~Bud D10 ProIII Custom; Sho~Bud SD10 The Professional ; ETS S10 5x5;
Fender 1000; 1993 Remington U12; 1978 Emmons S10 P/P; GeorgeB Weissenborn;
Fluger Cat-Can; Asher Electro Hawaiian; Gibson BR4; Fender FS52; Guyatone 8str;
Fender Resonator ; Epiphone Coronet 1937; Rickenbacher Ace; Rickenbacher NS;
Dynalap 8string; Harbor Lights 8string; Aiersi Tri-Cone; Fender Stringmaster

Roger Rettig · From: Naples, FL

The ZBs were my first-ever steel guitars, so I thought it was all part of the deal, not then knowing any better. Once I bought a used Pro-111 (my first non-ZB steel) there was no problem. I don't get it on my various Emmons, either.
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Roger Rettig: Emmons D10, B-bender Teles and Martins - and, at last, a Gibson Super 400!
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Jerry Jones · From: Franklin, Tenn.

I had this problem with my old push/pull when I first got it. I just potted the pickups in a mix of paraffin and bees wax....problem solved.

You might also check for shorted magnet wire on the two outside pole pieces. That can sometimes cause hyper-sensitivity.

David Hartley · Posted 7 Apr 2010 10:54 am **Hi again**

I might try David Nugent's idea first... I will have a think about what I can 'CAP' the pedal stop screws with too.. I dont think its helping. The rest of the guitar I silent as I have it tweeked with no rod clatter and stuff. I was going to put a George L on it, but decided to keep it 'original'.. We will see,,, Right, John (Jack) Russell's lesson now..Bye.. We have lots of gospels tracks to learn for out concert next month

Brint Hannay · From: Maryland, USA

Jerry Jones · From: Franklin, Tenn.

It's a good idea to use the start of your coil wind as the ground and the finish as the hot. At least that way if you have a short to the magnets, it will be ground-to-ground.

Lee Baucum · From: McAllen, Texas (Extreme South) The Final Frontier

For guitars that have mounting screws that go through the pickup and down into the top of the guitar, you can try this. It works well on my old Mullen.

Find some dense foam and make washers out of it. Then, you can slide a foam washer on to the mounting screw before running the screw through the pickup and down into the guitar. The foam will act as a damper between the pickup and the head of the screw.

By the way, I think all pickups will produce a noise if you tap them.

Lee, from South Texas

Peter den Hartogh · From: Cape Town, South Africa

David wrote:
I will have a think about what I can 'CAP' the pedal stop screws with too..

Here is a solution Very Happy

_________________
1977 Sho~Bud D10 ProIII Custom; Sho~Bud SD10 The Professional ; ETS S10 5x5;
Fender 1000; 1993 Remington U12; 1978 Emmons S10 P/P; GeorgeB Weissenborn;
Fluger Cat-Can; Asher Electro Hawaiian; Gibson BR4; Fender FS52; Guyatone 8str;
Fender Resonator ; Epiphone Coronet 1937; Rickenbacher Ace; Rickenbacher NS;
Dynalap 8string; Harbor Lights 8string; Aiersi Tri-Cone; Fender Stringmaster

Jim Pitman · From: Waterbury Ctr. VT 05677 USA

I used to make the Tonealigner pickup. Potting or not potting a pickup is like night and day when it comes to microphonics.
I have heard unpotted pickups that were wound so loosely you could speak into them and your voice would come out your amp.
There's a debate over on the Electonics section wether potting affects the tone. It may do so, however, wether it makes it better or worse is still debatable. I personally would pot it. It's not very difficult:

Use a pan within a pan to make a double boiler. The outsdie pan has water, the inside pan has good old wax like you'ld buy for canning. The double boiler limits the max temperature the wax can get to so you don't light it on fire and burn your house down.
Submerge the pickup in the melted wax. Note the bubles coming out....thats good.. a sign that the air is being displaced by wax. After about ten minutes or until very few bubbles are coming out remove the pickup. I use tongs. The deeper the wax bath the more penetration you will get due to increased atmosheric pressure. Try just a little time at first. If it's still microphonic you can always do it again submerging for more time.

Jerry Jones · From: Franklin, Tenn.

I remember speaking with a specialty wax manufacturer some years ago and he was working on a special formula of wax for one of the major pickup manufacturers. It was supposed to restrain the magnet wire enough to prevent microphonics but allow the wire to vibrate very slightly with the instrument body vibrations.

Anyway, here's a great link to a Lindy Fralin article: http://www.stewmac.com/freeinfo/a-lindyfralin.html

Randy Wade · From: Batesville, Arkansas, USA

I second the GeorgeL idea. They are really quiet in both hum and mechanical noise pickup. If you are picking up mechanical noise you have a microphonic pickup. That is not because it is single coil though. It is because it is microphonic. Being single coil alone would not cause it to be microphonic. It has to do with the way it is potted and how the wire is wound on and the way it is all physically put together.

Ulf Edlund · From: Umeå, Sweden

Most SC's are microphonic to some degree.
I had a Pro I that sounded fine but it was too microphonic. (original PU) The clanking was almost as loud as the tones.
I tried another Sho-Bud pickup and a Truetone, but ended up with a BL 710. Sounded great!
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David Hartley · Posted 7 Apr 2010 2:28 pm Ha

My LKL snapped off tonight Oh Well

John Billings · From: Ohio, USA

For the mech noises, couldn't you just replace the stop screws with nylon machine screws? Maybe someone makes nylon acorn nutz?

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