A question of morals and ethics...............

Ray Montee · From: Portland, Oregon (deceased)

Does morality and/or business ethics hold any valued place today, in our modern society?

As many of you will recognize.....I possess the legal domain name of Jerrybyrd-fanclub.com/ Jerry Byrd personally recognized my comitment to him and his music and extended his sincere appreciation for each of my early day efforts and all of my later efforts, as well, on his behalf.

Recently, I had to change the original domain name to the 'hyphenated' spelling as 'someone/persons unknown' that had previously worked with me on the original Jerry Byrd Fan Club.com site had in actuality filed this specific domain name under their own name and not mine.

When the 'original domain name' renewal time occurred, they would not release it back to me when they ended their relationship with me and the club.

Although there were about 1/2 dozen fellows that did work with me on the site and for whom I did pay fees for their services, minimum as they might have been, I have a strong suspicion as to who the low-life might actually be. Altho' I have no proof, I know that I did pay the 'guru' the amount required for filing that domain name back then.

My QUESTION is: Aren't there any people out there any more with a sense of business ethics or common morality? What's happened to this society? Individuals often described as lacking in those personal traits........were often tho't of as being 'drunken musicians'.

The original domain name is being offered "FOR SALE" at this time.

I have to ask: What is there to be achieved by this person's action other than to cloud the authentic and respected identity of the JERRYBYRD-FANCLUB.com/ and it's honorable role in the music community?

What say you? Any ideas? Any suggestions?

Stephen Gambrell · From: Over there

Did you offer to buy the name back? Domain name errors happen all the time. Remember a few years ago, when "whitehouse.com" turned out to be a porn site? And you're contradicting yourself, the way I read it. You say that someone took the siteunder his own name, then you say you MIGHT know "who the low-life might be." So which is it?
And what difference does it make, as long as Jerry Byrd's music is remembered, and appreciated? Or is this about self-edification?

Roger Palmer · From: Rossendale, UK

Any kind of morality in business seem to go out the window sometime in the 1980's in the UK and I expect the US as well.
I would email the organisation selling the domain name and offer them $1. Its probably the best one they are likely to get as there is only you Ray that is prepared and dedicated enough to do a Jerry Byrd fan club site. It smacks as a form of blackmail that whoever registered it would be relying on you to fork out huge sums of money to keep it. This doesnt really work nowadays as domains are so cheap and there are alternatives like .net or org etc

Bob Simons · From: Kansas City, Mo, USA

I suggest you consult a lawyer. There are some complicated issues involved that should be explained to you before you offer an opinion.
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Bill McCloskey · Posted 1 Apr 2010 4:44 am

There are a number of things to do. You can offer to buy the domain back, you can be notified once the domain comes up for renewal and try and get it then (if the original owner let's it expire, you can purchase it at that time), you can find a new name that you register under your own name.

Who registered the name in the first place? you must know that, somebody paid the bill. This sounds more like a misunderstanding than anything else. As much as we all like Jerry Byrd, there is very little value in the domain for anyone but a Jerry Byrd fan.

I don't see how morality plays in. Someone registered the name. I don't know why you didn't register it yourself or have someone register for you if you planned on owning the name. Whoever registers a name, owns it, except in the case of cybersquating, and then that only applies to large brands like Cocacola.

Personally, instead of asking if there are people out there with a sense of business ethics, I would say, why are there not more people with business sense.

Bill McCloskey · Posted 1 Apr 2010 5:22 am

"Altho' I have no proof, I know that I did pay the 'guru' the amount required for filing that domain name back then. "

Do you have a contract, receipt, etc or line item bill that says you paid for the domain? You might be able to appeal to the place it was registered.

Mike Neer · From: NJ

Ray, there is a big business of domain name squatting, where these people gobble up expiring domain names in order to sell them for a huge profit. If your domain was set to expire, there should have been an automatic renewal in place. Sometimes these squatters put in requests for a domain name and when that domain is up for renewal, they are notified.

This is probably an over-simplification of the process and I don't even remember how I learned about it, but it is a pretty sad state of affairs when this is the type of business that is thriving in America these days.
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Bill McCloskey · Posted 1 Apr 2010 5:41 am

"Ray, there is a big business of domain name squatting, where these people gobble up expiring domain names in order to sell them for a huge profit"

Well, very few domain names are worth more than the $10 it takes to register it. I don't think this is the case here. There seems like more subtext than we are getting here. Ray, I am assuming that when you split from your partners, there was some acrimony. This doesn't sound like someone trying to profit from the name. This sounds like someone who is upset about something.

Ben Jones · From: Seattle, Washington, USA

why? personal vendetta or they really want that domain name for their own fan club. Id guess the former.

Ray, dont even blink, dont give him the satisfaction, just move on with a new domain name and forget all about this slight.
anything less and he wins.

Ray Montee · From: Portland, Oregon (deceased)

I had not heard of 'domain squatting'.......

I paid the 'guru' for his service and out of pocket expenses, registering the domain name, among them. There was no question it was my 'name' in line with the web site.

THANKS to each of you. You've given me some new perspective.

Cal Sharp · From: the farm in Kornfield Kounty, TN

There are Federal laws regarding domain squatting. You might get some idea what your domain is worth at http://www.haplog.com/ This here forum is worth almost 9 grand, according to it.
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Bill McCloskey · Posted 1 Apr 2010 7:21 am

What did the guru say when you asked for it to be moved to your name? If he registered it, he should be able to move it to your name. It is not being used for anything now.

Bill McCloskey · Posted 1 Apr 2010 7:23 am

"There are Federal laws regarding domain squatting"

Domain squatting rules would not apply in this case. The domain has to be a registered trade mark.

Mark Eaton · Posted 1 Apr 2010 7:28 am

Jerry Byrd is one of my heroes as well, but I can't imagine in the big picture the domain name being worth a whole lot.

A friend who works in hi tech told me a story a few weeks ago about a guy he knows that had an internet cell phone business. He registered a name for his website as having something to do with the word "iPhone." This was well before the iPhone hit the market, and he caught wind of this upcoming product from Apple that was in the early prototype stage and still years from becoming an actual consumer product. But he beat Apple to the punch and registered the name.

The long and short of it was that the guy sold the name to Apple, and was able to retire from the proceeds.

So I guess when the day comes that you will be at a shopping mall with a lot of people carrying steel guitars under their arm and Jerry Byrd CDs, there will be some big bucks in selling the Jerry Byrd domain! Wink

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Cal Sharp · From: the farm in Kornfield Kounty, TN

Mike Neer · From: NJ

Bill McCloskey · Posted 1 Apr 2010 8:02 am

"Or a personal name."

I've never heard of a cyber squatting case against a personal name unless that name is also a trade mark like Oprah. In any case, it wouldn't apply to Jerry Byrd, or in this example.

Bill McCloskey · Posted 1 Apr 2010 8:05 am

" I was trying to register the domain moonlighters.com and eventually was offered the domain for $1K, which I of course declined."

Like anything else, if other people want the name, it is worth more. These things are always negotiable. I recently bought a domain for my company. It was for sale and not being used. I asked what they wanted and they said, $1k just like you. I offered $500 and they took it. But most domains are not worth $1k or even $100. Most are worth $10.

Bill McCloskey · Posted 1 Apr 2010 8:09 am

What still doesn't make sense is why the original guru is not transferring the name if Ray hired and paid him to register the name. This is not a cybersquatting problem. There is no reason why the guru would not transfer the name unless there was some acrimony. I would love to know why the guru refuses to transfer the name. Did they get paid? Does he feel he is owed something?

Bill McCloskey · Posted 1 Apr 2010 8:30 am

The domain in question was registered to George Hine from Portland, Or, working for a group called Active Technology, Inc. If you need his email or phone number, let me know. George renewed the domain 7 times. On March 6th , 2009, the register was changed to a private domain service based in Australia which blocks the name of the owner of the domain.

Hope that helps. Seems like George Hine is who you need to chat with.

Ben Jones · From: Seattle, Washington, USA

yeah this aint squatting.

I remember when squatting first started.
They'd buy up the logical domain names of fortune 500's and turn em into porn sites until the company paid the ransom. Whoa!

Early on, They got the logical domain name of the very small but very wealthy company I worked for, called my boss and treid to extort money from him. My boss dint even know what a domain name was so he told the guy to scram. I told my boss "hey you should check into this new fangled internet thing, I think you could do alot of business thru that thing." Laughing

Those were the days.

Joseph Carlson · From: Grass Valley, California, USA

Not much help, but this is from www.whois.com:

Domain Name: JERRYBYRDFANCLUB.COM

Registrant:
Above.com Domain Privacy
8 East concourse
Beaumaris
VIC
3193
AU

Tel. +61.395897946
Fax.

Creation date: 2009-03-22
Expiration Date: 2011-03-22

Bill McCloskey · Posted 1 Apr 2010 9:05 am

Above.com is a domain parking service.

I have tools that let me see the entire history of a domain, which was how I was able to see that George Hine was the original domain owner in 2004 and was the registered owner until 2009 when it got parked.

Ray, were you paying for all the renewals of the domain? It was renewed multiple times by George over the 5 year period from 2004 to 2009.

Mark Eaton · Posted 1 Apr 2010 9:37 am

Mike, I understand.

I was just supplying an anecdote of one such instance where it worked out for an individual in a really big way.
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Ray Montee · From: Portland, Oregon (deceased)

GH was my original guru........ Helped set up my site and administered it for a couple of years. He filed the domain name supposedly in MY NAME as that was the plan from the outset.

GH did a lot of trouble-shooting and was always paid in CA$H right at the door.

GH had many irons in the fire and subsequently moved to southern California reportedly to be closer to his family. Shortly thereafter we lost track of where his wanderings had taken him. No Xmas cards or anything so it seemed that he had merely moved on.

I had to protect my site and when a great and wonderful Forumite attempted to register the domain name we found it was already 'taken'.

We altered the domain name with the hyphen and have been moving right along since then. I've simply come across the original domain name several times now while doing unrelated searches on the net.

I can't understand why in the world he'd re-register
the domain name as many times as he did........other than to simply keep me from having it, yet, there was no problems of which the wife and I are aware that should/could've promoted said action. WHAT is the benefit for him to have "PARKED IT"? Is it likely he that's offering it for sale, or, is it the "parking attendant" that might be doing that deed?

Well anyway, many thanks to each of you. I appreciate your readiness to jump in and be of help.

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