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Topic: Early Sho-Bud Permanent? |
Ryan Barwin
From:
Hamilton, Ontario, Canada
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Posted 17 Mar 2010 8:40 am |
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I just came across an ad for a 7&1 Bud Permanent. It says "Madison, Tennessee" and the mechanism looks very primitive, so I'm assuming it's an early one. Anyone know what year this guitar is? What do you think it's worth? Thanks.
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www.pedalsteel.ca |
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George King
From:
Woodlawn,Illinois
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Posted 17 Mar 2010 12:10 pm
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That is a cool guitar...BUY IT! I just picked up a nice original 64 madison sho bud and I intend on keeping it.Here's a photo.George
Last edited by George King on 25 Mar 2010 5:13 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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John Billings
From:
Ohio, USA
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Posted 17 Mar 2010 1:47 pm
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Way cool guitar Ryan! Everything looks poifect with the exception of that knee lever thing. Looks a lot like a '59 to me. Notice that the keyhead is the same as my '59, whereas the keyhead on George's beauty is the same as my '63 Fingertip. No roller nut on our Perms, but a roller nut using string end balls on the '63s.
George! I tried to zoom in on your guitar, but it got fuzzy. String ball ends for rollers? Right?
Here's a pic of the two different keyheads. Notice on both George's Perm, and my F-tip, the 5th and 6th string tuners are offset. 1963.
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George King
From:
Woodlawn,Illinois
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Posted 18 Mar 2010 2:46 pm
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| I just noticed that the red guitar in Ryans post looks like the first 3 pedals work the back neck.Maybe it has the c 6th neck on the front like a Curly Chalker set up or something? Geo |
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George King
From:
Woodlawn,Illinois
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Posted 18 Mar 2010 2:49 pm
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| Yep John , mine has the string ends for rollers.... |
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John Billings
From:
Ohio, USA
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Posted 18 Mar 2010 2:53 pm
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| Good catch George! |
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Ryan Barwin
From:
Hamilton, Ontario, Canada
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Posted 19 Mar 2010 12:21 am
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hmm...when did it become standard to have the back neck set up for C6 and the front neck for E9?
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www.pedalsteel.ca |
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David Griffin
From:
Jimmy Creek,Arkansas via Cowtown, USA
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Posted 19 Mar 2010 9:27 am
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Ryan: Great looking guitar,but,believe me, it will NEVER stay in tune w/ the slotted nut.It will have to be changed for the guitar to ever be playable. I had an early Gumby-headstock Maverick w/ the slots & it was a nightmare(great tone,though!) 
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http://www.myspace.com/davidagriffin |
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John Billings
From:
Ohio, USA
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Posted 19 Mar 2010 9:41 am
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Nut Sauce is the answer. Stays in tune as well as any 6-string guitar with a standard nut. I have a Hipshot with B and G benders, and three toggles on my Dano Guitarlin. The right sized slots and some lube make it very tuning stable.
I'm sure David is right about his Maverick, but I'm not really having any problems. |
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Chris Lucker
From:
Los Angeles, California USA
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Posted 19 Mar 2010 10:36 am
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| Ryan Barwin wrote: |
| hmm...when did it become standard to have the back neck set up for C6 and the front neck for E9? |
Ryan
I have two cabinet end Permanents -- a 1957 and a 1959 -- that have the C6 necks on the outside because they need to be.
The big three way switch -- like a Tele switch -- between the necks gets in the way if the higher pedals need to cross from the front apron to the rear. So, the C6 necks are given the short cross shafts and the E9 the long cross shafts.
Both of my Cabinet ends are earlier than this red pickup Sho-Bud because they had 25 inch scale necks, which means they started life as D-8s.
Chris
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Chris Lucker
Red Bellies, Bigsbys and a lot of other guitars. |
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Chris Lucker
From:
Los Angeles, California USA
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Posted 19 Mar 2010 10:43 am
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| David Griffin wrote: |
| Ryan: Great looking guitar,but,believe me, it will NEVER stay in tune w/ the slotted nut.Ieek: |
David
I have to surmise that your slots are not cut correctly.
I have several Bigsbys and a 1957 Sho-Bud that have solid nuts and they stay in tune, don't break strings and play well. I have two new-old-stock Sho-Bud solid nut keyheads I am using to replace roller nut keyheads in another Sho-Bud.
I also have some Wrights and a Fender 400 with solid nuts. The Fender works great -- The Wrights are in the process of restoration.
Don't blame the nut design -- blame who cut or maintained the slots.
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Chris Lucker
Red Bellies, Bigsbys and a lot of other guitars. |
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Steve Waltz
From:
USA
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Posted 19 Mar 2010 12:03 pm
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Chris,
Getting away from the posted topic but since we are talking about keyheads:
My new triple neck doesn't have rollers on the keyhead. It's slotted like a stringmaster. The strings hit a round bar with grooves cut into it, but these grooves all look like the same size, which is pretty large. When you say they need to be cut properly, I assume the issue is that they need to be at least big enough to allow for the string to slide and not catch on the wound part of the string? I don't want to change mine but I'd like to hear some set up pointers. So far these seem to work ok but it's only been a couple of days that it has been set up. I'm thinking large cut outs are OK. |
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John Billings
From:
Ohio, USA
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Posted 19 Mar 2010 12:36 pm
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As long as there's enough downforce on the strings to keep the skinny strings from slippin' around in the fat slots, I don't think there should be a problem. But,,, do the tops of the strings lie on the same flat horizontal plane? If not, that could create some issues when playing down low near the nut. Can the round rod be turned? If so, it could be re-grooved for the correct string gauge diameters.
Chris will know more fur shure! |
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Chris Lucker
From:
Los Angeles, California USA
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Posted 19 Mar 2010 1:09 pm
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I have an experienced tech do mine for me. That is the best advice i can give. I am not going to do on the job training on a Bigsby nut, for example. And when it is right, it is a pleasure. And, I do not sweat the strings being not level at the nut. If I buzz with the bar near the nut I work around the problem. Maybe the issue is not as pronounced on the E9 neck, for example, because the strings are tuned D9 so the slacker strings level out more easily with bar pressure?
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Chris Lucker
Red Bellies, Bigsbys and a lot of other guitars. |
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Chris Lucker
From:
Los Angeles, California USA
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Posted 19 Mar 2010 1:16 pm
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Ryan
If you are worried about the solid nuts, I will trade to you a pair of 1961 Sho-Bud ten string keyheads with rollers or a pair of 1963 Sho-Bud keyheads with rollers.
Or, I will just take the whole guitar.
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Chris Lucker
Red Bellies, Bigsbys and a lot of other guitars. |
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D Watson
From:
Marion, Indiana, USA (deceased)
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Posted 25 Mar 2010 4:00 pm
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TTT  |
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George King
From:
Woodlawn,Illinois
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Posted 25 Mar 2010 5:17 pm
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| Hi Dave, I got the papers you sent me on the sho bud.I'm sure am glad you found those.It's not every day you find a vintage guitar with documented history behind it. I'm waiting to get the pickups back from Jerry Wallace now.I will get some new photos posted once I get it back together. |
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D Watson
From:
Marion, Indiana, USA (deceased)
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Posted 8 Apr 2010 5:24 pm
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Hey George, how are you coming on the guitar? Did you find what I was telling you about the tuning bollts(screws) being two different threads? I want to know how you come out with that. D Watson  |
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