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Topic: Total PSG newbie |
David Kurtz
From:
San Francisco, CA
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Posted 25 Mar 2010 11:51 am |
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I want to learn how to play PSG, but I don't know where to start. I can't get the sound out of my head and it's driving me nuts. Here are the gear-related things I need to know:
Should I buy a starter PSG, or just go straight for something that I could play for a while?
Is there a standard pedal/lever configuration? If not, what are common varieties?
What are some other gear related things I need to know or ask about?
Once I've got gear, what's the best way to approach the instrument? When I learned guitar, I had many years of piano and music theory, and I did best by learning songs and supplementing that with scale diagrams, chord charts, and books like "Fretboard Logic."
My budget is around $800 for gear and a little bit more for DVDs/books. After I get my feet underneath me I'll look around for lessons, maybe probably.
Thanks! |
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Joe A. Camacho
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Posted 25 Mar 2010 12:09 pm
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Hey David,
Which part of California are you in, if you're in SoCal I'd suggest checking out Jim Palenscar's shop in Oceanside. |
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David Kurtz
From:
San Francisco, CA
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Posted 25 Mar 2010 12:22 pm
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| I'm in San Francisco. |
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Tony Middleton
From:
Eastpoint, Florida, USA
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Posted 25 Mar 2010 12:38 pm
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Since you already play standard guitar, here is a video you should watch:
"The Pedal Steel Guitar E9 Nashville Tuning Demystified for Standard Guitarists Video"
http://www.steelguitar.com/resource/videos/vids6string.html
_________________
MW Custom SD10, NV1000, Fender Twin Reverb, learning PSG after years of playing Acoustic Electric |
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Chris Dorch
From:
Wisconsin, USA
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Posted 25 Mar 2010 12:51 pm
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Find a good 3x4 in E9.. Used, they are around a grand give or take.. New, they can be very low or very high... Figure out your budget and then ask "What can I get for $X".. you'll get a lot of good ideas and probably some guitar offers...
Find a steel teacher if that's how you learn... Personally, I am not that kind of learner... DVD's don't do it for me either. I have a couple and they aren't helpful for me.
Get Winnie Winston's pedal steel book. Regardless of whether or not you use it to teach yourself, it's a good read and explains a lot.
Be warned... Once you start on the steel, very few can stop... |
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David Kurtz
From:
San Francisco, CA
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Posted 25 Mar 2010 1:20 pm
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| Ok, next newbie question... what does "MxN" mean? I see it a lot in PSG chatter. pedals x levers? |
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Calvin Walley
From:
colorado city colorado, USA
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Posted 25 Mar 2010 1:37 pm
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i have no interest in this but there is a nice Simmons on E-bay for sale
i have owned a Simmons and they are great guitars
_________________
proud parent of a sailor
Mullen SD-10 /nashville 400
gotta love a Mullen!!!
Guitars that i have owned in order are :
Mullen SD-10,Simmons SD-10,Mullen SD-10,Zum stage one,Carter starter,
Sho-Bud Mavrick |
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David Kurtz
From:
San Francisco, CA
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Posted 25 Mar 2010 2:19 pm
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Very helpful introduction. Thanks! |
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Charles Davidson
From:
Phenix City Alabama, USA
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Posted 25 Mar 2010 3:01 pm
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Welcome David from Alabama. If possible try to find a used PRO model instead of a student model. YOU BETCHA,DYK?BC.
_________________
Hard headed, opinionated old geezer. BAMA CHARLIE. GOD BLESS AMERICA. ANIMAL RIGHTS ACTIVIST. SUPPORT LIVE MUSIC ! |
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Dave Grafe
From:
Hudson River Valley NY
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Posted 25 Mar 2010 3:19 pm
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Hi Dave, I just composed a lengthy explanation of the various pedal and knee lever setups but the internet ate it before I could hit the "Submit" button. The short answer is yes, you guessed right, "3x4" or "3+4" is shorthand for 3 pedals and 4 knee levers, just possibly the most common configuration to be found on E9 guitars.
The three pedals (referred to as A, B & C) and the two knee levers that raise and lower the E strings are pretty much essential for negotiating the instrument, the third lever which lowers strings 2 and 9 is very useful as well but not so vital at the early stages of the game and the fourth lever, generally raising string 1 and doing SOMETHING else to SOME OTHER string is not necessarily so important until you get the hang of working with the other changes.
FYI I have an Emmons with 3+5 that is my "show" guitar but I do a lot of playing out and about with my ShoBud Pro I which has only 3 pedals and 2 knee levers and there is enough in that little rig to keep me happy. Certainly such a guitar will keep you busy for another fifty years or more if your budget is limited, and it will hold its value much better than a "student" instrument. Did I mention that the old ShoBud is also a TONE MONSTER? Yeah, that....
Somewhere in your area is a fine fellow by the name of Barry Sless whom you owe it to yourself to locate, listen to and introduce yourself to. With your background in music theory I'm sure you can take it from there.
Good luck and keep us posted on your adventures, if you keep pickin' that thing it will never heal.... |
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Don Drummer
From:
West Virginia, USA
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Posted 25 Mar 2010 3:49 pm comence with sense
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Welcome Dave. With your background learning will be lots of fun and excitement. It's what keeps us going  Don D. |
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Clete Ritta
From:
San Antonio, Texas
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Posted 25 Mar 2010 8:40 pm Re: Total PSG newbie
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| David Kurtz wrote: |
...Should I buy a starter PSG, or just go straight for something that I could play for a while?
...Is there a standard pedal/lever configuration? |
David,
I began my steel guitar odyssey only around 4 years ago. I had many of the same questions. Here's what I did—
I bought a Carter Starter on eBay for around $450 from Alaska.
It made its way to TX, along with a tonebar and Bruce Boutons DVD (got lucky).
That DVD, and playing along with the radio, kept me busy for at least a year. The guitar sounded good, played okay, and stayed in tune well. Its a 3X4. Emmons ABC pedals, E raise and lower on the left knee levers, D# lower on 2, and B lower on 5 with the right knees. For 10 string E9, Its pretty "standard", as far as standards go (which you'll find here soon that a standard is merely an affirmation from someone who does it the same way you do. 
I must say if you do catch the steel bug (many do), you'll find that it may inspire you for many years to come. I still play that Starter at rehearsal from time to time, and its a good reminder that once you learn the basics, you can always go back to them on a simpler setup and enjoy it.
Next thing, after you get your feet wet learning to tune by ear and figure out how it works, is find someone to teach you new stuff. Better yet, find someone before you get one! Its not a necessity, as theres tons of useable instructional material, but it will speed up the learning curve considerably.
As is true in most walks of life, you get what you pay for usually. In otherwords, you cant go wrong by buying a more expensive steel to learn on, but its like jumping into a Ferrari, when you just need to learn how to parallel park to get your license. Most well made steels will hold value reasonably well, so it's an investment for sure. The Starter is only one of many out there that will get you onto the freeway at a reasonable price.
Thats what I did.
All you need is a little amp so you can hear the tone, and you dont need to get a volume pedal at first, but if you do, youre one step ahead on the right foot.
Im sure you will find something soon to learn on!
Good luck,
Clete |
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Rick Winfield
From:
Pickin' beneath the Palmettos
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Posted 26 Mar 2010 5:13 am Msa
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You can often find "used" MSA's,(pro guitars) on this site, priced reasonably. I would suggest, as others, 3x4
Rick |
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Ken Metcalf
From:
San Antonio Texas USA
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Posted 26 Mar 2010 6:41 am
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800 bucks should do it, I think that is about all I have spent
a pro model used, is a good thing.
S-10 and Nashville 112.
You may be a hair light on the budget tho.
_________________
MSA 12 String E9th/B6th Universal.
Little Walter PF-89.
Bunch of stomp boxes |
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John Gilsdorf
From:
New Mexico, USA
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Posted 26 Mar 2010 7:21 am
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David,
I just went thru the same scenario but you have a good headstart with the music backgound. There are some good pro model guitars here on the forum resonable priced. Use the search function in different threads and you will see a pile of recommendations about starting off with a good used pro model vs a starter model. I suspect a starter would work fine but if something goes south as it is just a starter and you fight it and dont know it and get frustrated etc that may take the fun out of it, this is just my opinion. It will cost a bit more but may be worth it.
I bought a package of all brand new stuff resonably priced from Steel Guitar Nashville to avoid that hopefully. I worked for a lot of years to be able to afford it and investigating it was not all that much more expensive as you will need a guitar with a 3X4 and an amp and a volume pedal and cords and..... I felt for me it would be best to learn with a complete package that would last me a long while without having to upgrade because I couldn't do something or was hassling with something or missing something, just my opinion. All I needed was to confuse the process and get frustrated, been there done that.
Good luck!! We should start a "beginners chronicals" thread so everyone can get a good chuckle!! I got a good one already watching my first video. |
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Ben Jones
From:
Seattle, Washington, USA
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Posted 26 Mar 2010 9:24 am
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I would avoid the carter starter and get a used pro model with 3 pedals and four knee levers at least.
I think $800 is an unrealistic budget for a pro model psg even used and Id say $1000-1400 is far more likely.
Use a guitar amp that you already own till your gonna start playing gigs. many guitar amps make wonderful steel amps (fenders!!) many do not, but no need to invest in something specifically for steel until its time to leave the bedroom and play with a drummer and a PA system. Even then your Twin will work great
Be prepared for some incidental expenses that will have you shaking your head in wonderment.
$150 for a volume pedal 
a decent BAR that will last, around $50-75
Bruce Boutons dvd is cheap and I found it to be a very good beginners guide (i tried alot of dvds)
If you can find a steeler in your area to help guide your first puirchase that would be ideal and I have no doubt would save you some money.
Its alot of money to shell out at first. You take a leap of faith that you are gonnna enjoy the instrument and the money will be worth it (it was for me and i dare say most everyone here the forum). A decent pro model USED psg, unlike a new one, can always be resold to recoup your investment tho so its not the end of the world if you dont take to it. Its not like buying that Jet Ski you used twice and selling it 2 years later for one fourth what you paid for it.
MxN (M=#of pedals...N=#of levers)
S10 =single ten string
D10 equals a doubleneck 10 string
SD10 =a single neck 10 string on a doublenck body usually with a pad.
why would anyone want a single neck on a doubleneck body? Its comfy to have that pad there to rest your arms on. an S10 or an SD10 would be a good place to start, so in our code here you are looking for a "S10 or SD10 3x4 modern pro used pedal steel guitar(PSG)".
good luck! |
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Stephen Silver
From:
Asheville, NC
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Posted 26 Mar 2010 10:59 am
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David, I am in San Jose and teach, been playing 35 years, teaching a few years (smiles) as well.
Contact me via email and we can chat. There are a number of things to take into consideration as mentioned above. I'd be happy to help you out.
Stephen Silver
_________________
Life is mostly Attitude and Timing |
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John Gilsdorf
From:
New Mexico, USA
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Posted 26 Mar 2010 6:09 pm
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| There's a couple (starter) packages without amps for sale in the for sale section if you are interested. They are close to your budget |
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Brick Spieth
From:
San Jose, California, USA
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Posted 26 Mar 2010 6:57 pm
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| Call Stephen Silver. |
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Richard Damron
From:
Gallatin, Tennessee, USA (deceased)
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Posted 27 Mar 2010 7:54 am
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David -
Well, "Newbie", did ya get more than ya bargained for? The above is a prime example of the collective generosity of the members on the Forum. I won't add anything constructive other than to suggest that you absorb it all, be very objective and stick your nose into all of the advice given. In the end, your decisions will be wise ones and you'll be well on your way to a life of total musical frustration - interspersed with periods of outlandish elation. Such is the PSG that you've been smitten with.
I wish you well.
Richard |
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Gary Richardi
From:
SoCal, USA
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Posted 27 Mar 2010 9:57 am
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Some love to hate the Carter Starter but I still like mine. It has 3 pedals and 4 levers, holds it's tuning very well, and sounds decent. It's very light which is a plus when carting but a minus when playing as it tends to move a bit when you use the knee levers.
I've packed it diagonally in an old suitcase (I don't have a hardcase for it) and checked it at airports and it's usually even mostly in tune when I set it back up at the destination venue. Last time when I reurned with it through LAX, the baggage carousel peeled the old suitcase open like a sardine can and I thought, well guess it's finally time for a new steel...but the CS was undamaged. So, while it's built economically (e.g. the rollers in nut are guitar string ends - lol!), it's built well.
If you can pick one up used for under $500, it's a great way to get introduced to steel playing.
When my band travels, we try to get a steel provided with the backline. I've played a number of other steels now and still think my CS hold up as decent compared to them. Sure, I can instantly see and feel the difference between the CS and a pro-level instrument but I don't believe any of that difference would hold back a beginning player. |
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Ben Jones
From:
Seattle, Washington, USA
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Posted 27 Mar 2010 8:23 pm
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one problem with SOME carter starters was in the knee levers. I had one that lasted a week before the knee levers started bending inwards and the guitar would no longer hold tuning. Thats why I "love to hate the carter starter".
I understand that many have had positive experiences with them. Ive personally seen people play them and sound great. I've heard lots of positive stories about them, but also enough stories similar to my own to not recommend the guitar. I think it was a great idea, an affordable student psg with the needed changes on it.
no offense meant. I know two guys with that play em at gigs and sound killer.
Honestly, I was told the design flaw was corrected in later models. How do you tell a later model? I dont know. some have packing slips in the box with dates. |
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Rick Winfield
From:
Pickin' beneath the Palmettos
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Posted 28 Mar 2010 9:07 am Sierra
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Just listed
a Sierra s-10 3x4
for $800 !
I check it out if I were you !!
Rick |
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Dick Sexton
From:
Greenville, Ohio
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