On a C6th...???

David Hartley · Posted 21 Mar 2010 9:52 am

Whats the 2 (or 3) most used pedals on a C6th? Like the A and B on an E9th.... And wht would be the most common pulls or lowers on these 2 (or 3) pedals.

Knee levers too? Is there one (like the E's to Eb on an E9th) that is really necessary? Its like learning a new instrument for me !

And where are all the 'C' positions with these common used pedals.

Thanks in advance..David

Steve Norman · From: Seattle Washington, USA

Dave I cant wait to hear what you come up with on c6! I am excited that you are digging into it.

My intro to the c6 pedals focused on pedals 5,6,7, and 8

For most minors I usually use the ones built into the tuning, focusing on strings 4 and 8 of the open chord positions. For instance an open no-pedal Cmajor chord has the Aminor built in if the 4/8 string is included.

Using the stock GFI copedant

http://www.gfimusicalproducts.com/Tables/Copedant%20Tables.htm

PEDAL 6
This is the main pedal I see people use.
I think a lot of people use pedal 6 in C6 the way E9 uses the ab pedal combo. It raises a I to a IV. Personally I like to use the pedal to get chords out of the open positions. For instance playing open with no pedals and the root on string 3: in the key of Cmajor I,IV,V progression is open/12 fret, then up to 5 and up to 7 with no pedals.

Using the 6th pedal now the root is on string 9, and the Cmaj chord is on fret 7, the 4 on the open/12 and the 5 on fret 2.

Basically you have added another position for the I chord 5 frets down from the open the same way you add the AB pedal position 5 frets down from the open on an e9.

PEDAL 5

Pedal 5 is a 2 fret down from open chord. In other words a no pedal Cmaj at fret 12 can be moved down to fret 10 with the 5 pedal. Gives a cool big band tension to the chord.

PEDAL 8

gives a chord 3 frets up from open focusing on the low strings. Can dive bomb into a chord for maximum carnage.

from the open Cmajor on fret zero, slide up 3 and engage pedal 8 using strings 10 and up. Great for playing over rock and blues.

PEDAL 7

Gives a major 7 of the open chord, but to me using it briefly adds a crying quality to the chord

this post is also has some great stuff

http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=43781&highlight=[/url]

I hope my lowbrow explanation helps, I feel horribly inadequate trying to answer a person of your skill and experience! Embarassed

_________________
GFI D10, Fender Steel King, Hilton Vpedal,BoBro, National D dobro, Marrs RGS

Paddy Long · From: Christchurch, New Zealand

Dave, pedals 5 and 6 are your base pedals, although they function slightly differently to the E9th A and B.
C to B knee lever is also standard. You should also consider raising your C's to C# (bit like the F lever on E9th) and lowering the A to Ab on knees.

Good luck with the C6th journey.
_________________
14'Zumsteel Hybrid D10 9+9
08'Zumsteel Hybrid D10 9+9
94' Franklin Stereo D10 9+8
Telonics, Peterson, Steelers Choice, Benado, Lexicon, Red Dirt Cases.

David Hartley · Posted 21 Mar 2010 1:27 pm Hi

Steve, thank you so much. I will be studying this tomorrow. Many thanks, believe me, It does feel alien to me and it may be a long time before you hear me picking at it. I remember, I used to have a sho-bud super-pro and never played it much then. This is good info you have given me and it is very much appreciated. I did a gig last night and tried a coupe of things on it but safely stayed in open positions without pressing pedals. Ha. I got some odd loks from Fran who was singing.

Many thanks Paddy too for your info.

If I dont get on with it, I can see me sticking 8 pedals on the E9th! I bet thats been done before?

Roger Rettig · From: Naples, FL

David

There are no direct similarities to E9, but if you think of 'no pedals' at fret 4 being an E major (E6th if you hit 2,3,4,5) then Pedal 6 gives you an A7th - for a purer A go up five frets to 9. Then when you're there hit pedal 5 and there's your B7th.

Back to fret 4: play the 'open' E chord, hit the 5th pedal and there's a lovely fat F#9 across all ten strings!!1

Once you get this simple 'geography' in your head you'll be off-and-running.

Opinions differ, but I think the knee raising the 3rd string (C-C#) is vital - it gives you another inversion of the major chord just three frets above zero:
EG:
4th fret no pedals = E major - slide up to the 7th fret and engage the C-C# raise as well as pedal 5 and it's (roughly) the equivalent of what we do on E9 when using our E-F knee-lever.

I lower my C-B (3rd string) on my MKL, and I raise my C going right on the same knee, so that feels the same as lowering and raising the Es on my Day-set up E9 neck.

Eventually you'll want to lower the two As to Bb on a knee, and raising those two strings to A# is useful too. Don't worry about those for now....

The 7th pedal actually raise 3 and 4 a whole tone and gives a rich major 9th with no other pedals.

You should have a lot of fun!
_________________
Roger Rettig: Emmons D10, B-bender Teles and Martins - and, at last, a Gibson Super 400!
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Roger Rettig · From: Naples, FL

You're going to find it has a thicker, darker timbre - mainly, I suppose, because it's all pitched that much lower than the top neck. That bright ambience that's so familiar on E9 is not so readily available on the C neck, although it has more-than-adequate compensations in the rich chord-voicings that it offers.
_________________
Roger Rettig: Emmons D10, B-bender Teles and Martins - and, at last, a Gibson Super 400!
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Michael Haselman · From: St. Paul

My biggest hurdle is that there's no equivalent to sliding the bar for inversions. E.G. no pedal major, slide up 3 with A F lever, slide from there to major with AB pedals. Or maybe there is and I just don't know about it...
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Mullen RP D10, Peavey NV112, Hilton volume. Hound Dog reso. Piles of other stuff.

Roger Rettig · From: Naples, FL

Michael

Read my post - that's exactly what I'm describing.

EG: Play, say, an G major at fret 7 (no pedals) on strings 2,3 and 5 then slide up three frets and engage the lever that raises the 3rd string and play 2,3 and 4 - there's G again. Add pedal 5 at the +3 postion and you'll have a G6th.
_________________
Roger Rettig: Emmons D10, B-bender Teles and Martins - and, at last, a Gibson Super 400!
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Doug Seymour · From: Jamestown NY USA (deceased)

David......here's a "one foot C6th" I have used since ever since I saw a chart from Weldon Myrick in Winnie Winston's book back about 1975? He used a KL to get the usual pedal 7! I tried it and liked it so much I've used it ever since even though Buddy Emmons didn't care for the two fret raise idea on strings 3 & 4! It is stiff and caused me to not stay with steels that didn't have helper springs to give them easier action on that knee!?? My Excel keyless S10 handles it well as did the old 1984 Zum I got from Bobbe used back in '88 or '89.
I just got a nice D10 keyless D10 GFI that I'm ready to try it on and I believe it will handle it well as it seems to have adjustable return springs on it? You can't go wrong with Buddy's KLs! I used P2 & P3 for the standard pedals 5 & 6 with P7 on my RKL. RKR lowers 3 from C to B with a D string on 1 as Buddy does, I think? LKL raises 4 A to Bb and my LKR raises the Cs (3 & 7) to C#. It's done a job for me since 1973! Give it a shot it's only time? and everyone knows steelers have too much of that??!! Drop me an e-mail for the combinations this tuning has!?

Wayne Franco · From: silverdale, WA. USA

A long time ago I used the Buddy Emmons course. That got me started. Didn't play C-6 for a long time after that. When I did I figured I needed to learn some songs as a starting point. I studied every tape that Steve Palousek did for the Emmons Guitar company. Really great stuff that will certainly shape your playing style. Some really great songs to learn. The only thing is it was a little more difficult for me to learn them in the style he taught. But after months of learning I got through them all.

Just looked through some of the books I have. B.E. has some books that he tabs out most of the songs. I have the book from the album "Its all in the Swing" which has some really nice songs.

Lots of ways to start learning

Doug Seymour · From: Jamestown NY USA (deceased)

One thing I forgot to mention is that I firmly believe in using 4 picks on C6th to get the nice 4 note harmonies as a piano man does rather than the 3 note voicings found on the E9th tuning. I actually gave up using picks on my C6th a few years ago. I do feel that E9th sounds better with picks though? Matter of opinion maybe?? Bare fingers block nicely? right? Bobbe & I grew up listening to "our" piano man....His Dad! that gave us something to "shoot" for!

Bob Hoffnar · From: Austin, Tx

David,
This might help map things out a bit:
[url]
http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=43781&highlight=[/url]
_________________
Bob

Don Brown, Sr. · From: New Jersey

C Major = Open & 12th fret (No Pedals)
Strings:
7,6,5
6,5,3
5,3,2
3,2,1 = (with High "G" tuning)

7th & 19th fret (No Pedals)
Strings:
10,9,8
9,8,7
9,7,4
--------
Pedal 5 = 10th & 22nd fret
10,9,8
10,8,5
--------
Pedal 6 = 7th & 19th fret
7,4,2
4,3,2
--------
Pedal 7 = 5th & 17th fret
5,4,3
4,3,1
--------
Pedal 9 = 3rd & 15th fret
9,8,7
8,7,6
7,6,4
7,4,2
--------
Pedals 4 & 5 = 8th & 20th fret
6,4,1
4,2,1
--------
Pedals 4 & 7 = 5th & 17th fret
8,5,3
--------
Pedals 4 & 9 = 3rd & 15th fret
10,9,7
10,7,6
--------
Pedals 5 & 6 = 4th & 16th fret
6,3,1
--------
Pedals 5 & 7 = 10th & 22nd fret
8,5,3
--------
Pedals 5 & 8 = 8th & 20th fret
6,3,1
3,2,1
--------
Pedals 4, 5, & 6 = 1st & 13th fret
9,8,6
9,6,4
8,6,5
6,5,4
--------
Pedals 5, 6, & 7
9,6,4
--------
Pedals 5, 6, & 8
9,6,3
6,5,3
--------

Note: All C Major. There might even be more! Embarassed

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