Two Note Partial Chords

Stephen Abruzzo · From: Philly, PA

This post is a corollary to Mike Neer's HARMONY post.

Let's assume we have a bass player/rhythm git who are playing the basic chords/bass and the slide/lap steel/lead guitarist wants to "allude" to certain chords by playing SOME of the chord notes but not ALL of the chord notes.

The question therefore is; given a chord, what notes can be left out and which notes should be played/stressed?

Example, when playing a dominant 7th chord (1, 3, 5 and flat 7), I've seen it mentioned in this forum that one would play a partial two-note chord made up of the 5/flat 7 and to leave out the 1/3 notes.

So, which notes should be stressed in playing 6th, 7th, 9th and 13th chords? What about regular, minor, major chords?

But what I wanna know is this...if I'm playing some blues and for the sake of argument, lets' say that in the song at various places, there's an E7, then an E9 later on and an E13 past that, OK....with the above 3 chords, what 2 notes would you play and which ones would you leave out and why?

Thanks for your knowledge and your patience.

Bill Hatcher · From: Atlanta Ga. USA

see Lenny Breau......

Bill McCloskey · Posted 5 Mar 2010 1:50 pm

I think it is important to realize that the chords that are laid out, especially extensions such as 9th's, 11ths, 13ths, really are just indicators of the possible notes you can play over the chord. You don't have to play all the notes of the chord.

The purpose of the bass player is to indicate the harmonic movement and in jazz, normally the bass player would play the root of a chord on the first beat of every measure.

Comp instruments help support that. But from a soloists standpoint, you would normally play chord tones on the beat. A 9th in a chord just indicates to the soloist that the second degree of the scale can be included in those chord tones. If you are playing over a C7th chord, you probably want to avoid playing a D note on the beat. However playing a D over a C9th chord on the beat would sound fine.

I just look at chords as an indicator of what tones are available to me when I'm playing over the chord.

Thomas Cross · From: Magnolia,Texas, USA

The third note of a scale I have read is the prefect harmony note for that scale.

In the C scale that is the E note.

Check it out, tfc

Billy Tonnesen · From: R.I.P., Buena Park, California

This an old timer's simplified approach. Whatever tuning your using, find the notes single string in the chord being called for, then use the two strings that are closest to the melody of the song. This can be by keeping the bar straight or incorporating a slant. You need to a great extent to rely on your "EAR".

Mike Neer · From: NJ

Stephen, I just posted a little entry about intervals in my harmony thread. It's just the tip of the iceberg, but relevent to your question. If you really want to get into this stuff, it's important to know the structure of all the chords. It's not that difficult, much of it is self-explanatory, but within that, the mysteries deepen and unravel at the same time.

Anyway, the least desirable interval for 2 note chords is the major 7th (not for me, I love it), followed by the perfect fifth, unless of course, you're going for that sound, which I sometimes do. 3rds, 6ths, 10ths, these are all great harmonies. The most expendable note in a chord is the root, followed by the 5th.

Triads can really take you far. When I was coming up playing guitar, I was aware of a triadic approach to playing Fusion and Jazz. I spend a lot of time with stuff like that and, frankly, anything I can to broaden my knowledge; whether I use or not really depends on if I feel it can work in context of the music I'm playing (most of the time, no, unfortunately).
_________________
Links to streaming music, websites, YouTube: Links

Guy Cundell · From: More idle ramblings from South Australia

This is a question without a straightforward answer that I know of. To give the flavour of a chord you need to consider what is the "active ingredients" are? What are the defining tonal colours of a chord?

"Defining" happens on a couple of levels. In a broader sense, which of the three main families does the chord fit in, Major, Minor or Dominant, or if outside of those categories (sus 2 or 4, or m7b5, etc) which notes are crucial. Beyond that , what are the extensions or alterations?

For maj and min triads, the third is the crucial element which can be accompanied either the root or fifth. A sus triad needs the suspended 4th or 2nd along with either root or fifth.

For seventh chords the colour notes are the 3rd and the 7th and are well expressed by just those notes though the m7b5 and dim7 chord needs the b5 as well and cannot be adequately expressed by just two notes.

Extended chords, 9ths and beyond as well as altered chords are the problem. They firstly need the seventh and third to express their basic nature. There's your interval gone. Beyond that they need the extensions and alterations if any. Generally the highest extension will do.

So, to express a Dom13th chord you need a maj 3, b7 and 13th (6th). You just can't do it with 2 notes. for a 7b9 chord you need 4 notes to fully express it. This is what makes writing horn parts for just 2 instruments a challenge. There is more than one answer. Let your ears be the guide.

Guy Cundell · From: More idle ramblings from South Australia

Beyond being able to express the chord lies the area of true artistry in harmony (IMO), whether it is playing a chord melody or providing backup. That is the art of voice leading or how you progress from one chord to another.

There are two extremes. On one hand you can progress from one chord to another using the exact same notes. eg The top 4 strings of C6 can be either 6,1,3,5 of C6 chord or 1,3,5,7 of Am7. The other extreme is moving all the notes from C6 up a tone to D6 where all the notes are different.

In between is the middle ground where you keep common notes and change some. eg C6 (open strings), add nose of bar to string 4 fret 1 to form C7, different sonority, different chord family and function.

The player has to choose how smoothly the chords will be played. Are you going to leap 5 frets or to the next chord or can you find an inversion of the next chord at the same position on the neck? How you are going to achieve this depends on what your chord knowledge is like and the choices you make. Given that there are many options and you don't have to play the whole chord, you may opt to omit a colour tone like a seventh in favour of a less colourful tone such as a root or fifth in the cause of producing a smoother progression.

This (IMO) is one of the huge challenges of non pedal playing because of the limited number of notes available with a bar and a fixed tuning.

Voice leading is a feature where the maestros like Jerry Byrd really shine brightly. It is also an area where slants (particularly ones with common tones) come into their own.

Stephen Abruzzo · From: Philly, PA

WOW!! Thanks ever so much for the EDUCATION.

Bill McCloskey · Posted 7 Mar 2010 7:53 am

"So, to express a Dom13th chord you need a maj 3, b7 and 13th (6th). You just can't do it with 2 notes."

Careful listening to Ornette Coleman's early albums, especially his first, is very instructional on what can and can't be expressed in one or two notes. Those early albums were so unusually because they had no piano: just sax, trumpet, bass and drums. And yet even though there are no comp instruments playing, the progressions are clearly laid out with the bass grounding the chord progression and the two horns suggesting the more complicated chord structures. And if you want an even more dramatic example, listen to Sonny Rollins trio recordings, Live at the Village Vanguard. Just sax drums and bass, and yet Sonny improvises freely over the chord changes.

Chord progressions are a guide. some notes are implied, but not overtly stated.

Guy Cundell · From: More idle ramblings from South Australia

a bit of thread drift, but what the hell.

Here is a little exercise using mostly partial chords. It is a cyclic progression in C using of I VI7 II7 V7. The VI and II are secondary dominants so the b7 of both chords is implied and not always stated. In bar 4 there is a G7 chord without the third for voice leading purposes, again it is implied.

Forum Index > Steel Without Pedals		Next oldest topic :: Next newest topic

All times are GMT - 8 Hours	Jump to: