Playing Steel on a Wood Floor

autry andress · From: Plano, Tx.

Our Cowboy Church has built the band a very nice Stage with a Wood floor. I'm removing the rubber feet
from my steel this week-end & play it in direct contact with the Wood floor.
I read some time ago about a all-pull guitar how it transfers the vibrations to the end-plate, to the legs, & then to the floor. Also my Webb-amp will
be in direct contract will the floor also.
Looking for feed-back Guys!!!! Bring it on.
Thanks
Autry

Steve Hitsman · From: Waterloo, IL

I find that my guitar and volume pedal tend to "walk" on wood floors. I always set up on a rug.

Herb Steiner · From: Briarcliff TX 78669, pop. 2,064

The rubber feet help support the pedal rack.

I believe you'll find that if you remove the rubber feet from your guitar's legs, the pedal rack will want to go to the floor, but be stopped by the crossbar assembly on the front apron. It will make the pedal feel and travel very wierd and could possibly damage something. And I don't think there will be any noticeable improvement in sound.

Try it if you will, but don't leave the rubber tips at home on the day of the service, in case you need to reinstall them at the church.

As for the amp, the glides on the bottom protect the wood and the tolex from getting torn and banged up. But if you can hear a difference you like... Wink

_________________
My rig: Infinity and Telonics.

Son, we live in a world with walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with steel guitars. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Lt. Weinberg?

Bob Blair · From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada

Might be kind of hard on the wood floor as well. I know how popular I'd be if I tried that trick on the wood floors at home!

Georg Sørtun · From: Mandal, Agder, Norway

Steels that really vibrates through to and into the floor, are likely to do so more cleanly with those rubber feet on. My steel tends to react positively with wood floors and stays firm, but if I take the rubber feet off it creates a slight rattling sound and starts to "walk" powered by string vibrations only.

IMO, the rubber feet on a steel are hard enough to transfer all the "good" vibrations - if there are any, and there's no advantage in taking them off.

Amps/speakers placed on wood floors tend to sound a bit too boomy, and if they have short, hard, feet, or no feet so they rest on the cabinet or corner-protections, they may also create a rattle-sound when playing loud. Usually better sound-wise to get the amp/speaker a foot or so above the floor and ever so slightly cushioned on a stand.

If the room (with its many reflective and non-reflective surfaces) favors it, a wood floor stage may work very well sound-wise. It all depends on the room and how the wood floor stage is built. You'll know when you have tested it over time and found the best positions for the gear.

David Nugent · From: Gum Spring, Va.

Autry...I find that an "Amp Wedge" (available at American Musical Supply) works well on most stages. It is simply a rubber like, wedge shaped block that slides under your amp. The angle of the amp and how much is in contact with the stage is determined by how far the wedge is inserted.

Herb Steiner · From: Briarcliff TX 78669, pop. 2,064

James Morehead · From: Prague, Oklahoma, USA - R.I.P.

With out rubber feet, the front legs tend to spread away from the rear feet--might crack an endplate. I doubt any percieved increase in tone is worth that risk. JMHO

Roger Crawford · From: Griffin, GA USA

It is simply a rubber like, wedge shaped block that slides under your amp.

Sounds like a door stop you can get at the hardware store!

Barry Hyman · From: upstate New York, USA

All this would only work with an acoustic instrument. With the amplified pedal steel, you want the vibration of the strings to be transferred to the pickup and then to the amp, and then you want the vibration of the speaker to move air without hindrance. Getting the floor involved merely gums up the works, in both cases.
_________________
I give music lessons on several different instruments in Cambridge, NY (between Bennington, VT and Albany, NY). But my true love is pedal steel. I've been obsessed with steel since 1972; don't know anything I'd rather talk about... www.barryhyman.com

David Nugent · From: Gum Spring, Va.

Roger..I suspect you would not want to trust your amp with a simple door stop holding it up, this is an entirely different animal. (FWIW..It may help to do some research on the product mentioned before posting a condescending reply.)

Georg Sørtun · From: Mandal, Agder, Norway

Barry H., I won't argue against what you said, and for many steels the "you want the vibration of the strings to be transferred to the pickup and then to the amp" may be all you want and indeed all you get. But have you noticed that on some steels, because of the way the PU is mounted on the body, you get not only the "string vibration relative to the PU sound" but also the "body vibration relative to strings sound" out?

That, and the entire interaction between strings, body and PU varies greatly with how a steel is constructed, so you can indeed get an audible effect that ends up being amplified, out of how some steels interact with the floor they're placed on.

I know nothing about your steel and most steels out there, but I know my own steel quite well and it does indeed have a floor-interaction component in the amplified sound. In that sense: if the amplifier manages to make the floorboards vibrate - by contact our "soundwaves through air", some of that vibration comes back to my steel and creates effects that get amplified too.

Since these "interaction effects" can be heard on a "directly through the board" recording of my steel - tapping the signal chain before the amp, they're real and not just in my imagination. Haven't recorded other steels under controlled conditions, and those few I have played seem to have zero or next to zero of these effects - at least I can't hear any (apart from some unwanted noise in some).

Barry Hyman · From: upstate New York, USA

Georg -- I won't argue with what you said -- you certainly know more about the science of all this than I do. I know that steels make the floorboards vibrate. It is the idea that some of this vibration "comes back" to the steel, and the additional assumption that such an occurrence would improve the sound, that I am wondering about. But again, you do indeed know more about this than I do, and I am ready to learn. I did notice that my heavy old MSA, with its heavy legs, made the floor vibrate a lot more than my new Williams. But the Willy definitely sounds better through the amp. Oh well, sound is a mystery, at least to me.

These guys are right however -- don't do anything that would damage your steel, and probably damaging the wood floor is to be avoided as well...
_________________
I give music lessons on several different instruments in Cambridge, NY (between Bennington, VT and Albany, NY). But my true love is pedal steel. I've been obsessed with steel since 1972; don't know anything I'd rather talk about... www.barryhyman.com

Georg Sørtun · From: Mandal, Agder, Norway

Roger Crawford · From: Griffin, GA USA

Brint Hannay · From: Maryland, USA

This topic seems like an extension of a perennial fundamental question: Does resonance of things the string is in contact with (and the things they are in contact with, and the things they are in contact with, etc.) influence the vibration behavior of the string itself? And if so, in what way?

One school of thought says such resonance "backfeeds" the string, positively enhancing tone. Another school of thought says vibration of things the string is in contact with represents a transfer of energy out of the string, and thus can have only a subtractive effect.

To a lay observer, it seems as though this might be a question that could be objectively resolved by scientific study, and may in fact have been.

In an electric instrument, this is relevant because the magnetic pickup, by its very nature, is intended to produce a complex of electrical frequency information which is induced by its magnetic interaction with the vibrational frequencies of the string itself.

But this, too, is complicated by the fact that a magnetic pickup quite often "picks up" vibration that is not related to electro-magnetic interaction with the string(s). If the strings are removed from a steel guitar with a "microphonic" pickup, and one knocks on the wooden body of the guitar, the sound can be heard through the amplifier. (This would seem to be because the windings of the pickup are able to be vibrated slightly by vibration of the body the pickup is attached to, and the movement of the winding wire in the magnetic field induces a corresponding signal.) So, for this reason, a pickup with microphonic characteristics may add to the signal that it sends frequency information that is extraneous to its theoretically intended magnetic string response, and thus "enhance" the tone.

Sorry for this long-winded semi-digression, but I enjoy thinking about this stuff, though I have no special knowledge to back up my ruminations. Oh Well

Tommy Shown · From: Denham Springs, La.

Jason Hull · Posted 24 Feb 2010 2:27 am

You should play your steel on an aluminum floor. I've heard it gets better sustain. Wink

Georg Sørtun · From: Mandal, Agder, Norway

Scott Appleton · From: Ashland, Oregon

That will only mar the floor .. sustain comes from the interaction of the guitar and the amp.. that includes the body of the instrument picking up the speaker output.
That in turn causes the strings to vibrate longer .. so the pickup sends more energy back to the amp .. too much causes feed back and squeaks .. great if you
know how to handle that but only as an effect.. the floor may induce more feedback or vibration in a steel guitar because of the mechanics.. that can transfer to the pickup as noise or clatter .. that is not what you want .. i would say in conclusion that removing the rubber feet is not a good idea ..

autry andress · From: Plano, Tx.

Lots of very good comments, how ever I failed to mention the steel legs would be setting in a little
2"X 2" wood square with a 5/8" hole for the legs to set in. Same height as pedal bar, no danger of steel moving as I could put a small screw to hold the 2"X 2" wood square in place, so no damage to steel. The wood floor/Damage is not a Issue.I was just trying to catch some of those overtones & use it to my advantage. Also I plan on playing in the same spot till the lord calls me home, which could be any day
now. Thanks guys I appricate each & every comment.

Georg Sørtun · From: Mandal, Agder, Norway

Autry, it sounds like you have covered all bases, so I wish you luck and hope you report back how it works out.
Would also be nice if you include some images of how your steel with the leg rigging actually looks. The details can be very useful for us who experiment with such effects.

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