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Topic: Shobud? |
Frej Backström
From:
Sweden
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Posted 22 Feb 2010 11:16 am |
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Hi!
I'm new here, but I've followed a lot of posts. Thanks for good reading!
Just wonderin what you make of this guitar. I live in Sweden and before I bought this guitar two years ago, on ebay, I hadn't really seen any steels in real life.
This was supposed to be a Sho Bud.
After watching hundreds of photos in this forum, I'm not so sure anymore.
Thanks! / Frej |
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Jason Hull
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Posted 22 Feb 2010 11:47 am
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| Sho Bud Permanent. |
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John Billings
From:
Ohio, USA
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Posted 22 Feb 2010 12:31 pm
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| Yup! |
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Jay Jessup
From:
Charlottesville, VA, USA
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Posted 22 Feb 2010 12:35 pm
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| Well it does look like it has some original Sho-Bud parts on it, but if it ever was a real Sho-Bud it has been highly modified. |
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John Billings
From:
Ohio, USA
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Posted 22 Feb 2010 12:41 pm
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| Yeah Jay. The changer has been modded quite a bit. But still started life as a Perm. Wonder if it's a push pull now? |
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Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 22 Feb 2010 1:59 pm
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I doubt very much if it is a Sho~Bud.
If it was a permanent model, the bellcranks would be welded onto the cross shafts. |
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John Billings
From:
Ohio, USA
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Posted 22 Feb 2010 2:05 pm
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Erv,
I'm pretty sure that by the time the Fingertips came out, ShoBud used the same parts, cross shafts and bell cranks, etc., for both models. Remember, they didn't discontinue the Perm when they started makin' the F-Tips, and it wouldn't make monetary sense to make two different parts that serve the same purpose. The Perm changer stayed the same. I'm pretty sure that's right. Not 100% positive though as I haven't had my hands on a Perm from the Age Of Fingertips! Mine is all welded up. |
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Bob Muller
From:
Oregon, USA
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Posted 22 Feb 2010 2:21 pm
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| FREJ CAN YOU SHOW US SOME PHOTOS OF THE REST OF THE UNDERSIDE, WOULD MAKE IT EASIER TO FIGURE OUT?? |
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Steve Waltz
From:
USA
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Posted 22 Feb 2010 2:29 pm
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There are some differences between this guitar and a number of permanents that I have seen.
1. There are no screws in front of the pickup in the aluminium going towards the neck. There are no screws in the neck near the changer. Check out perms below.
2. If the changer hasn't been moved it seems too far fromt the end of the guitar.
3. There aren't any parts under it that look like new or old sho bud. That isn't that big of a deal since the whole thing looks custom under there, but still. You think they would have used a few.
4. Something about that keyhead looks odd to me.
5. I just pulled that exact inlay off a Miller. They all bought from elsewhere anyway but you never know.
That metal inlay on the guitar in question is a bit odd but looks original unless it was a total refinish, which is possible.
The pickup mounting screws are different. The shobuds have two on two screws behind the pickup and one on front. This one is reversed. This one also has soapbar type pickup housing.
I don't have an opnion about it. The owner seems to have reason to believe it is not a sho bud. |
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Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 22 Feb 2010 2:50 pm
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The first thing that caught my attention was the inlay.
I've never seen a Sho~Bud with that type of inlay.
"It just don't look right to me!" |
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John Billings
From:
Ohio, USA
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Posted 22 Feb 2010 2:55 pm
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Most of the underside looks pretty darn similar to my first run F-Tip. Bellcranks, collars, mounting blocks, etc.,
And the keyhead looks exactly right to be the same year as my guitar. Note the offset 5th and 6th tuners. I don't know about the tuners themselves, though I suspect ShoBud used whichever they could get a good deal on at the time. My '67 S-10 actually came new with Schaller machines! It also appears to have string ball ends as rollers, as does my F-Tip.
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John Billings
From:
Ohio, USA
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Posted 22 Feb 2010 3:09 pm
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| Just zoomed in on the changer underside. It's got "C" rings! So it's not Pull & Release. It's All Pull. Is it a modded Fingertip? Hmmmmm,,,,, |
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Steve Waltz
From:
USA
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Posted 22 Feb 2010 3:10 pm
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screws in the back of the neck and front of the changer.
Sorry about posting other peoples' pictures:
I can add a few more but the problem is finding one without those.
John, you don't find that odd? |
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John Billings
From:
Ohio, USA
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Posted 22 Feb 2010 3:24 pm
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My Perm. No screws on top. Neck screws are from the bottom.
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John Billings
From:
Ohio, USA
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Posted 22 Feb 2010 3:46 pm
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Erv,
Ya gotta remember, back then, all these guitars were considered to be "custom made." You could make personal choices about almost everything. You could chose your woods, your trim, how many pedals, etc.. Most of those trim strips are still available today. I've seen those metal corner inlays before, but I can't remember if they were on a ShoBud or not. But with all those changer mods,,,,,I'm just guessin'! |
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Steve Waltz
From:
USA
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Posted 22 Feb 2010 4:08 pm
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John, I'm not trying to disagree with anyone, just pointing out what I saw.
I have seen sho buds without screws in the neck, as your is, but I meant to say without screws in the neck and the changer, which is what the guitar in question is. Yours also shows the same pickup adjustment screw pattern that is on all of the other perms except this one.
It also seems a bit odd to have a Nashville sticker on it if it was an altered perm. If the finish was original it would most likely be Maddison. The finish looks a bit worse for wear and tear. If the person that altered it wanted it to be a sho bud still, you think they would have used the new fingertip changer and I don't think is one, is it?
But this is probably way more talk about it than we really need to do. |
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John Billings
From:
Ohio, USA
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Posted 22 Feb 2010 4:18 pm
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| Oh! Steve! I'm not wanting to argue with anyone. Just trying to figure this thing out. They made Perms much later than the Madison era, well into the 60s. The cabinet, keyheads, and such seem to indicate a Perm made well after the move to Nashville. The cabinet, the endplates(excluding the modding), the cross shafts, bell cranks, rollers, etc., all look like the parts on my first-run Fingertip., |
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John Billings
From:
Ohio, USA
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Posted 22 Feb 2010 4:27 pm
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| To top off all my confusion,,, my F-tip has the wood cut out behind the changer. This one doesn't. So,,, I guess it ain't a Fingertip that's been modded. I'm all out of guesses. Have to wait and see what else turns up,,,,,,,,, |
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Steve Waltz
From:
USA
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Posted 22 Feb 2010 4:42 pm
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| John Billings wrote: |
| Oh! Steve! I'm not wanting to argue with anyone. Just trying to figure this thing out. They made Perms much later than the Madison era, well into the 60s. The cabinet, keyheads, and such seem to indicate a Perm made well after the move to Nashville. The cabinet, the endplates(excluding the modding), the cross shafts, bell cranks, rollers, etc., all look like the parts on my first-run Fingertip., |
That's my point. If it was such a new permament why would someone do a sub par un sho bud modification to it? They weren't cheap and I wouldn't think someone would do that to a guitar that was only one to two years old.
BTW, I see a few of those sho bud pullers which are exactly like Millers but I also see two other styles of pullers. There are two different supports for cross shafts in there as well. See the round one on the back apron of the cabinet. The tuners are also not normal sho bud. You have to admit there are some random parts in there.
And why I care, I don't know. I can't get back into work mode after a week off. |
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John Billings
From:
Ohio, USA
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Posted 22 Feb 2010 4:44 pm
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| I just got a tip that it's not a ShoBud, but was made with parts bought from Shot. |
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John Billings
From:
Ohio, USA
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Posted 22 Feb 2010 5:05 pm
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Okay, When I stick my nose out too far, I have two buddies who never fail to help me out.
James Morehead looked at the changer, and said, "Think Marlin."
Here is the reply I got from Ricky Davis;
"It is NOT a Shobud.....I don't know what it is. Cause I never really followed "Miller" or "Electrotone" or more of those Canadian Builders that would buy parts from Shot or Leonard; and make their own steels....but there are plenty of home made steels out there with familiar parts.
ricky"
So, maybe a lot of ShoBud parts, but maybe with a Marlin changer? I wonder how it plays and sounds????? |
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Skip Edwards
From:
LA,CA
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Posted 22 Feb 2010 5:27 pm
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I don't know what it is...but it sure looks nice.
I've seen it around here before.
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John Billings
From:
Ohio, USA
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Posted 22 Feb 2010 5:29 pm
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| I love these "Is it a ShoBud" mystery threads! |
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Jay Jessup
From:
Charlottesville, VA, USA
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Posted 22 Feb 2010 5:56 pm
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Yeah John,
I like your first guess that it was an old Permanent modded to be a Push Pull.  Regardless of what it is, it's got some classic parts on it and if the pups are any good and it will play accurately it should make a pretty good sounding guitar?
My Perm is a 64 and Tommy remembered his Dad getting it from the Broadway shop. |
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Frej Backström
From:
Sweden
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Posted 23 Feb 2010 1:54 am
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Thank you all for valuable opinions, I will get back with accurate photos.
Skip Edwards, actually I think the guitar in that photo is my guitar, before I bought it. I remember it standing on the american flag in the ebay ad as well.
I've dealt with hundreds of guitars, acoustic and electric, but I'm kinda new to pedal steel guitar. I find it hard even to guess how old the parts are.
Anyway, the guitar has been modified, I think almost every part shows signs of modification, old screw holes etc.
The guitar sounds good but the pedal action was very bad so I have ripped everything apart and I'm greasing the mechanics right now.
Overall, as I've been looking it through, it feels like if someone found a cabinet, fingers and tuners, and welded the rest himself. In a bad way. Especially after looking at all of yours beautiful shiny instruments.
Thanks / Frej |
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