About the standard pedal arrangements of the day.

Ray Montee · From: Portland, Oregon (deceased)

Nearly all of us have the same basic pedal set-up on our guitars these days..........

Yet, we, as players, have the whole world of music variety at our doorstep.

Some of us forget that the top vocalists, the really BIG STARS, have their own song book full of their latest and earliest recorded hits........that they've been singing over and over for decades. When someone comes to see/hear Porter Wagonner(sp?), they don't expect to hear Ernest Tubb's hits, or Eddy Arnold's hits.

When it comes to steel playing, Buddy Emmons, Lloyd Green and others, have always played those wonderfully familiar tunes that helped to make them famous; a household word. This is to be expected. They are who they are.

But can you really imagine yourself playing in a band for twenty years, playing the same tired old songs, over and over again, hitting the same licks in the same identical spot then banging around in a smelly, rough riding old bus to the next town, so you can do it all over again. GADD!

As a modern day steel player, if you're serious about it, you can play an entire four hour gig and play in the PLAYING STYLE of atleast a dozen
different top steel recording artists. Different tones, different vibrato's, different TUNINGS, different picking techniques, varied bar movements,
and on and on.......... A real smorgasboard of playing opportunity for each of us.

How many of you are doing something like that? OR, are you stuck in your little five or six speed picking runs that you learned in the Jeff Newman College. Don't get upset now. I admired Jeff and miss him terribly. But.........

How many of you have truly explored the playing opportunities that are open to you today? So many playing styles await you to supplement your very own personal style.

Al Terhune · From: Newcastle, WA

Ray, not that anyone cares what I think or do, but I've never sought to sound like any player or learn their licks. I can play "country" licks, but since I only play pedal on my own tunes, my playing attempts to use improv in a way that is as unique as possible...but I still find myself using some lazy, easy-to-do pedal licks. I finally took the third pedal of my guitar because I just don't use it and I was tired of accidentally hitting the B instead of A from bad foot-feel. I like raising the 4th to an F# occasionally, but I use my vertical for that.
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Al

My equipment:

One heck of a Wife
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chris ivey · From: california (deceased)

...or how about rather than incorporating many different players' styles,...how about thefar out idea of perhaps developing a style of your own !!! or is that concept too colorful for you...,,,,??

Joseph Barcus · From: Volga West Virginia

Ray
You always post interesting things, and after reading this I have sit here and wondered what could I put in as my 3 cents worth.
I think that all of us at some point try to play like there favorite steel player and after one gets more secure at some point in time gets away on a different direction, and of course some do not.
I am no pro my a long shot and doubt that I will ever think I am but I do like to get into the oldies and try to figure out what they were thinking when they kicked those sweet intros or played those turn around's. It was said by someone here on the forum that producers did not want the players to hear the song before coming into a studio and they had to think fast for something that would keep them a job and not play the same darn thing.
I myself like the tele lead sound myself and try to work my style around that. I do not like fast licks or runs, that just ruins a song in my opinion. can I play fast stuff? not to good. Why? well again I really don't care for it and I'm sure that drags me down.
But you have opened a window to think about and it does not hurt to venture out on that limb.
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Roger Rettig · From: Naples, FL

Everyone starts by copying somebody just a lttle bit (as did you, Ray) - that's how inspiration gets a grip on you.
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Roger Rettig: Emmons D10, Quilter TT-12 & TT-15, B-bender Teles and Martins - and, at last, a Gibson Super 400!
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Ray Montee · From: Portland, Oregon (deceased)

Chris Ivey......might I ask?

Is it just ME.........you don't like?

I've NEVER encouraged ANYONE to adopt any one artists' style. The last line in my above post stated that quite clearly.

If you want, I'll quit posting entirely. I have no vested interested in the SGF and thus no requirement to put up with your nasty remarks.

chris ivey · From: california (deceased)

ray...please don't take offense. i respect you highly and wouldn't want you to go away. you have a distinctive style of posting which i find enjoyable.
you also have history which is impressive and everyone should learn from.

i'm sorry if my flippant 'screw off' behavior made you uncomfortable.

Georg Sørtun · From: Mandal, Agder, Norway

Adam Sorber · From: Pennsylvania, USA

I grew up listening to Ralph Mooney and Lloyd Green and I notice that I have a tendency to play in that style although I try to build my own licks around that particular sound.
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Adam Sorber
Sho Bud PROII custom D-10
Sho Bud PROII custom SD-10
Fender Super Twin Reverb
Fender Ultra-linear Twin Reverb

Bo Legg · Posted 15 Feb 2010 9:53 pm

Ray, judging by our avatars I seem to be a tad under dressed for the occasion.
My avatar does however reflect my attitude regarding all things PSG.
I have spent little time on my own lazily developed PSG style, which would be best described as “an endless series of nonsensical outbreaks of pointless expounding”.

Eric West · From: Portland, Oregon, USA, R.I.P.

Nicholai Steindler · From: New York, USA

Thanks for the post Ray!

Most people seem content to perfect what someone else invented. It's the true innovators and artists that time and time again push a familiar thing into new territory and make it their own.

Larry Bell · From: Englewood, Florida

I'm just trying to figure out what pedal arrangements have to do with the discussion, which begins by expounding that we all have basically the same setup and then uses as examples Lloyd Green (single neck E9), Buddy Emmons (fully loaded E9/C6 D10) and Jeff Newman (usually 12 string universal).

Seems to me the discussion is about playing style.

In any case . . .
When I dream about pedal steel guitar I hear one thing == THE BLACK ALBUM. The tone, the style, the variety, the execution all form a reality of what I want to be able to sound like and to do. No, I don't want to be Buddy Emmons, but it sure would be cool to be able to pull off some of the things he's done. He paid for it with more hard work than many of us can imagine and it bought him the ability to express himself musically with as simple a ditty as "Mansion on the Hill" or hot bebop like "Four Wheel Drive".

When I play I strive for the musicality, the ease of execution, and the well balanced spectrum of tones that the 'tape' playing in my head allows me to remember from that classic recording. It is a classic in both musical and technical terms and I think it serves as an inspiration to many of us. I play what I play but it is guided by the many solos from Buddy, Paul, and the whole cast of characters we all respect.

I don't think one's pedal arrangement has much to do with realizing one's musical objectives. What's inside is much more important. Just my humble ramblings.
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2021 Rittenberry S/D-12 8x7, 1976 Emmons S/D-12 7x6, 1969 Emmons S/D-12 6x6, 1971 Dobro, Quilter ToneBlock 202 TT-12

Robin Archer · From: Califon, , USA

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That's a Gibson Electra Harp; four pedals, 8 string, C6th

ed packard · From: Show Low AZ

When I think of different setups and material, I think Of Al Vescovo = 14 string C6, and Bill Stafford = E9/B6 plus some.

I have no interest in "performing" (since I quit in the early 50's). I am more interested in "what can be done" as opposed to "doing it".

I have several "experimental" setups....each with a different purpose. They are all on 14 stringers (most could use 12).

One has the integrated tuner/changer and a 30" scale with parallel strings = C69/F6/G6/CM13.

Another is a complete Bb13 configuration.

There are more. Most consider the two octave system of musical thought.

Then there is the Z-BAR, and next(being worked on now) is the no mechanics changer.

Different tunes lie better on different tunings/setups.

b0b · From: Cloverdale, CA, USA

Ray Montee · From: Portland, Oregon (deceased)

Thanks to each of you for your worthwhile, positive comments relating to my post.

Yes indeed. It's the player......not a rigid pedal set-up that makes the musician.

Look at Elsie Jaggers whom I shared with you a couple of weeks ago. This lady was still plugging away with her C#min tuning at retirement. It was very pleasant for me to get to hear that 'different sound' that she was demonstrating. Definitely a unique sound.

Bob Simons · From: Kansas City, Mo, USA

Ray- you're remark about playing in twelve different guy's styles really irks me! It sums up what I think is wrong with the attitude of many on this forum. So many of you spend your life imitating and clucking like old women at anyone who uses the instrument for anything but what it was used for 50 years ago!

I suppose I'd give much to have the skills of Buddu Emmons. I study the techniques of the greats and practice incessently. But I unavoidably sound like myself, and I have no real desire to do otherwise. I am quite sure you actually do sound like the same "Ray" for 50 years, as well.

Make something new for a change! Even if it is lousy it will be refreshing!
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Zumsteel U12 8-5, MSA M3 U12 9-7, MSA SS 10-string, 1930 National Resonophonic, Telonics Combo, Webb 614e, Fender Steel King, Mesa Boogie T-Verb.

Roger Rettig · From: Naples, FL

Well said, Bob - I feel the same way about that initial 'post'.
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Roger Rettig: Emmons D10, Quilter TT-12 & TT-15, B-bender Teles and Martins - and, at last, a Gibson Super 400!
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Jerome Hawkes · From: Fayetteville, North Carolina, USA

i was all excited when i saw the topic to this thread - i thought Ray was going to give us the historical run down of how we went from 6 string tuning to the modern "standard" copedant ....rats
this would be a good thesis to do and i wish some of the first/second generation players would tackle it for history's sake before its all gone with time.

it seems the first/second generation of steelers had their own unique copedants that evolved from their playing influences/who they played with/location - east, west coast/ urban/rural, their understanding of harmony, etc - that seems to have been standardized in todays era - ie "Sand" would have been a standard steel tune 50 years ago - i've never heard it played by modern bands - the rep has changed obviously. - players now are sort of forced to be more standardized and play everything in 1 tuning.
i was bewildered when the first Pedal Steel Method i got (WW's book) with all the copedants in the back - how in the world was a beginning player to grapple with all this variation - i mean, i could figure stuff out by ear on the guitar, but now, if you didnt have the change/tuning, you would beat your head against the wall for weeks (years) attempting to figure out how that was done (this was pre-internet - now you can just ASK and receive)

i saw somewhere while surfing the web there was a wikipedia based version that allowed folks to do a running history specific to some topic (i think this case was the evolution of a certain guitar) - it would be a good project.
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'65 Sho-Bud D-10 Permanent • '54 Fender Dual-8 • Clinesmith T-8 • '38 Ric Bakelite • '92 Emmons D-10 Legrande II

Ernest Cawby · From: Lake City, Florida, USA, R.I.P.

I am not a premier player just one that loves COUNTRY music. I started out with a flat top box with a nut???? under the bridge. Back ground was non pedal, now a mixture.
Regardles of what style you play there will be some in the crowd that will like what you do. In Saluda one night while Helping Herby Wallace load a lady got in her car cranked up turned on her lights, when she saw us, turned off the motor got out came over and gave me a big hug, she said I liked your set today thanks for playing for us, got in her car and drove off, she never spoke to Herby. When Jerry introduces me at Saluda he has never said I am a great player as he normaly does with most players he always says Ernie Cawby from the Great state of Florida. This is fine with me. After a set going thru the crowd several will take my hand and say I enjoyed your set. In Montgomery our first show. Jullian Thorp,s Son and Daughter came up and said we like the way you play, you play the old way.

Never sell your self short, do your best, make your mistakes, let the others play PERFECTLY well, there will be those who like them and thoses that like you, you will have a following if you do your best.
When Randy Beavers plays I cannot keep up with him ,I know maby half of what he is doing. My background is ,The things we learned in music class, the songs we played I cannot play half of them, now. The pages in our lesson books are yellow some was printed in the 1930's, so many of the songs we played back then are jus a memory now, I look at all thoses notes and a lot are a mystery. 6 years military band playing trombone and 6 months of bass, I know I am not a novice to music, having played all kinds, and l liking all kinds, just love country the best.
What I am saying is, every one of us that are trying to play and enjoy music have a place in the crowd, do not let the great ones get to you, do your part give it all you have, there are thoses that listen will connect with you and your style.

ernie

Alan Brookes · From: Brummy living in Southern California

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