"The Don Helms sound" ?

Ed Altrichter · From: Schroeder, Minnesota, USA

Is anyone manufacturing a steel guitar now-days that
closley approximates the sound of a Gibson Console Grand ? ED

Mark Roeder · From: Milwaukee, Wisconsin, USA

Jason Lollar makes pick ups for the 1948-52 Console that Don played. Nobody I know makes a guitar with those PUs new. If you find a body you can put his PUs on it.
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Matthew Dawson · From: Portland Oregon, USA

Don played a Fender Dual Pro on his first Hank Williams session. To me, his tone on this session doesn't sound very different from his later recordings with the Gibson. I've read an interview where Don says basically the same thing.

Ed Altrichter · From: Schroeder, Minnesota, USA

Mathew, that's interesting. So, did he say what convinced him to make the change from one to the other ?? Ed

Bill Fisher · From: Oklahoma, USA

Someone wanted his Fender, and $200.00, in trade for the Gibson. They did the trade for the Fender, and $100.00. You can hear him tell about it on "Country's Family Reunion" on RFD-TV.

Bill

Matthew Dawson · From: Portland Oregon, USA

I think I remember from the interview that he liked the way it looked and it was kind of a novelty, as not too many people in Nashville were playing Gibson Grand Consoles at the time.

b0b · From: Cloverdale, CA, USA

To me, the main aspects of the "Don Helms sound" are:

the high strings of his tuning: E G# B C# E G#
moving the bar to a distant fret instead of using a nearby slant to get the notes he wanted
never sounding the B and C# strings at the same time

I don't consider his choice of guitar to be a huge part of his trademark sound. To me, it's more about his choice of notes and the positions he used to get them.
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John Burton · From: Manassas, Va

Robert Momot · From: Farmington, Missouri, USA

Having had many conversations and learning from the master himself,Don once told me that ole red had a growl to it that none of his other guitars he played had,And he had several ( fender,shobud,marlen,msa,derby).His style and the way he approched the instrument. his hands, foot on volume pedal and what was in his heart,and the one two three that bob mentioned.makes for that lonesome sound.Don and his gibson were the most powerful team between man and instrument.bob

Ray Montee · From: Portland, Oregon (deceased)

Didn't Roy Wiggins (with Eddy Arnold) and Don Helms play the same model Gibson?

If yes, how does one explain the wide difference in the overall SOUND/TONE?

I always got that same "HELMS" sound on my Fender Triple-8 with standard strings.......simply by playing most of the stuff in the 12 thro' 17th fret region. I have recordings of it and it would be hard to differeniate.

Steve Norman · From: Seattle Washington, USA

http://pedalsteelmusic.com/instruction/nonpedal.html

I got the "your Cheatin Heart" book and cd by Don Himself from Bob. On my dual 8 fender I get similar sounds on a good day, using his tunings, strings, and gauges.

I really recommend this if your learning Helms style playing.
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Morgan Scoggins · From: Georgia, USA

While on this topic, I have a question about string tension for the "Don Helms" E6 tuning.
I play a Remington Steelmaster S8 with a 22.5" scale.When I use the E6 tuning, my string gages are .10,,14,.17,..17,.20,.30,.34 and .36 wich is a standard E13 set from Scotty's. I have a bit of "flabbynes" or lack of tension in the strings.I have to use a very heavy tone bar or I will get a bit of string rattle.
I wonder if the short scale is what is causing this and if I would be advised to use a heavier gage string, such as .12 to .38.
I skipped physics in high school and college, so I don't understand all of the scientific explanations. but it makes sense that a shorter string will have less tension than a longer string tuned to the same pitch.
Any advice would be appreciated.
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John Burton · From: Manassas, Va

A lot of it really seems to be the playing style.
Here is a youtube video of me playing two Hank Williams songs on a Morrel 6 String in C6 tuning. Not exactly the Helms sound (duh!) (or really, not even close), but you can see the playing style, choice of positions, etc. will get you in that territory on a lot of steels even in C6.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Tn-3uHJvJg

George Piburn · From: The Land of Enchantment New Mexico

Les Anderson · From: The Great White North

I play with a band that has a 45 minute Hank Williams tribute segment in our shows. When I know that we will be doing this, I always set up my D8 tuned to the Don Helms tuning and string gauges. Also, I use my Stevens bar when doing Don Helms work. I have also found that playing the E6th on the 22 1/2" scaled neck and the B13 on the 24 1/2" gets me just that much closer to that Don Helms sound.

E6) A C# E G# B C# E G#

B13) F# A B D# F# A C# E

I suppose it all boils down to who you listen to or what you read in his auto-bios.

To Ray Montee: Playing the old Roy Wiggins tone, I get very close to his tone on the 22 1/2" scale D8 using Don Helms B13th tuning and using the Stevens bar. For whatever reason, the modern chromed bars don't achieve that old style steel sound.

There is another factor that should be considered when doing Don Helms or Roy Wiggins sounds, the modern strings, PUs and bars are not what they were 50 years ago.

Robert Momot · From: Farmington, Missouri, USA

Morgan have scotty,s fix you a set using these guages.11-14-17-20-28-34-40-46.me and Don experminented and I liked these guages. I prefer Four plain and four wraped But Don liked five plain and three wraped strings.Also the older Gibson console grande's had a 23 scale fretboard and the newer console grande's had 22 1/2.

Rick Collins · From: Claremont , CA USA

Have you ever heard Don Helms play the song "Marie" as an instrumental?
It's exceptional. Is the tab for this in his book?

Robert Momot · From: Farmington, Missouri, USA

Rick it is not in the book. But you should of heard him play Blue Bayou it was the best.When we were at his house he would play things that would make the hair on your neck stand strait up,ever if you didn.t have any.Don was way more a occomplished player than he was ever given credit for.Not bad on guitar either.

Ray Montee · From: Portland, Oregon (deceased)

Contrary to what some will undoubtedly take issue with.......

in all of the years I've been playing steel guitar, it's only been here on the SGF during the last 3-4 years, where the "SCIENTIFIC and MECHANICAL" aspects of the machine have dominated the conversations over the common sense viewpoint about playing what you've got and making the absolute best of it as the players of old have done, so successfully, for decades.

I wonder if there is a valid point to be pondered here?

Ron Whitfield · From: Kaaawa, Hawaii, USA

It's the wonders of the internet, and we're better off for it. Of course it's easier than getting in a serious practice too...

Les Anderson · From: The Great White North

Ray, that was precisely my point. The modern steel guitars have changed imeasurably since the forties & fifties. Unless the player has the same setup that Don Helms and Roy Wiggins used and played, all the modern steel player can hope for is something that can come close to the original sound of the 40s & 50s steel guitar and its paraphernalia.

The recording equipment of that era also had much to do with how those tones were reproduced onto records and master tracks.

b0b · From: Cloverdale, CA, USA

When playing a Hank Williams show, don't forget that some of the songs featured Jerry Byrd on his C6th Rickenbacker. I once did a Hank Williams show tuned to D6th to cover all of Don's and Jerry's parts. The compromise worked well - only a steel player would have noticed the difference.

Rick Collins · From: Claremont , CA USA

That sounds like Don Helms on:

Ray Price's "I'll Be There"
and
Patsy Cline's "Walking After Midnight"

Can anyone confirm?

Ed Altrichter · From: Schroeder, Minnesota, USA

A discography of all of Mr. Helms' recordings would be nice . . .

Mitch Drumm · From: Frostbite Falls, hard by Veronica Lake

Rick:

You are right on both songs.

The intro to "Walkin' After Midnight" may be the best steel kick-off of all time. It sets the mood for the entire song. Patsy recorded it a second time later on and it pales in comparison to the original.

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