Audacity Delay

George Kovolenko · From: Estero, Florida, USA

When using Audacity, there is about a 1/4 to 1/2 second delay between what I play and what I hear. So I have to play with the sound or the headphones off then listen to the replay. This makes it almost impossible for me to add my steel tracks over backing tracks. Is this normal, am I doing something wrong, or is there a problem with my setup or laptop? Suggestions welcomed!!

Jack Stoner · From: Kansas City, MO

That is called "latency" and that is very high. The delay between what is being played and what you hear and record. In order to record along with a track the latency must be low or there will be timing problems.

What equipment are you using? An external recording interface unit? Your PC's sound card (and what card)? etc.

George Kovolenko · From: Estero, Florida, USA

I'm using a Silvertone (Nat'l Valco) six string lap steel plugged directly into the PC via the microphone input. The PC is a Dell Inspiron Laptop with a Sigma Tel HD internal sound card.

Jack Stoner · From: Kansas City, MO

The only thing I see in Audacity is the "overdub on/off" option. The manual doesn't say which way it should be for recording with another track, but I suspect it is on.

The Inspiron and SigmaTel should work OK, I don't recall any posts on the Dell users forum about latency problems.

However, run the latency checker program and see what it tells you. http://www.thesycon.de/deu/latency_check.shtml

George Kovolenko · From: Estero, Florida, USA

Thanks Jack, I'll check it out.
Also I'm going to try to run everything thru my amp, then output via the headphone jack into Audacity. That way I think I should be able to hear the backing track and steel guitar thru the amp and have a recording of it in Audacity. I'm only using this for practice right now to fine tune my style and intonation. It's amazing how different the playback sounds from the live playing.

Jack Stoner · From: Kansas City, MO

That sounds like a good plan. You won't have separate tracks for the backup music and your playing but you will be able to record everything together.

David Collins · From: Madison, North Carolina, USA

Try "edit" "preferences" "audio I/O" then set the playback option to NOT play what is being recorded. This will stop you from hearing the delay on the guitar or voice that is being recorded. Once the recording is stopped, it will all play back.

Otherwise, you'll probably always have some latency with a laptop sound card.

There are sound cards available for desktop machines that solve this issue. M-Audio makes a couple. I use the M-Audio Audiophile 2496 with excellent results on a desk top PC.

I am not aware of any similar cards for laptop. Good luck.
_________________
David Collins
www.chjoyce.com

George Kovolenko · From: Estero, Florida, USA

Dave, I saw that selection under "preferences" and changed it. I haven't had a chance to try it yet, though. Thanks for your input! George

Don Brown, Sr. · From: New Jersey

Hi Jack,

The 'SigmaTel HD' has great sounding Audio, but I find it's not capable of doing 'Stereo Mix' down, using Audacity.

It has only three choices (on a Dell Dimension E-520) those choices are:
Line-In
Rear Mic
Microphone

Dell confirmed no 'Stereo Mix' and there are no drivers that they know of that will correct that.

And yes, that same problem George has with latency. I've tried everything I know of to work around that, and all to no avail.

On the above computer it's a built in sound system, running 'Windows XP Media Center' Who would ever think Dell would sell a Media System with no Stereo Mix.

My Dimension 4600, SB Live has 6 choices which are:

Stereo mix
CD Audio
TAD-In
Auxuliary
Microphone
Line-In

Oh well, live & Learn.. Wink

........ Don

Jack Stoner · From: Kansas City, MO

The lack of the "System Mixer" is a common problem (complaint) in many new/newer PC's and not just Dell - from other vendors too. I have an Acer laptop and it does not have the System Mixer function (which is needed to record audio from the internet). My Dimension E510 which is the same "vintage" as your 520 does not have it. My new system is a home built using an Intel motherboard and the SigmaTel on that did not have the System Mixer until the last driver version update (but I don't use the SigmaTel - I have a separate SoundBlaster Xfi that does have the function for PC audio). Even some of the SoundBlaster Sound cards do not have this (SoundBlaster calls this function "What You Hear").

On some systems that do not show the System Mixer (or What you hear) it's actually there and not shown. On Vista/Windows 7 systems, in the Sound Panel's Recording section if you RIGHT click in an empty space and then select the "show disabled devices" the system mixer/what you hear MAY be there and that will "show" the device. If that is the case you can then select it and make it the default playback device.

Another workaround that works on SOME systems is to connect the Line Out to the Line In. Many newer systems only have a combo Speaker/Line Out connection (GREEN jack) so you would have to either disconnect the speakers to do this or have a "Y" cable with the speakers connected to one end of the Y and the other end connected to the Line In.

On some SoundBlaster sound cards, if the current date driver is used there is no What You Hear available but if you use the previous dated driver then you get the What You Hear. This is the case for the Audigy SE sound card, for example.

Specific to Dell, most Dell's require the use of the Dell supplied sound drivers, either for the Integrated Audio systems (e.g the SigmaTel which is now called IDT) or the Dell custom OEM model SoundBlasters such as was supplied with the 4600. If non-Dell drivers are used, many will not install (not compatible) and the ones that will install most of the time either the device will not work or not work correctly. I do a lot of support on the Dell users forum and am very familiar with the problems with Dell desktop systems audio. (I am "fireberd" on the Dell users forum if you happen to visit it).

Don Brown, Sr. · From: New Jersey

Thanks Jack,

I'll try that 'Right Clicking' on a blank spot to see what comes up, or what doesn't come up. Smile

I'll also, try the other things you suggested. And even go as far as trying to do a stereo mixdown, without it showing if need be, I'll report the results, either way.

I've noticed there is a later driver for that system, after I submitted the service tag number. However, there is also a BIOS update, as well as, if I recall correctly, a chip set update too?

I tried downloading the Audio Driver update, but it said I first needed to install another program, that I've never heard of before. So I stopped there. I'll check it again. So I'm better equipped in (my) memory, so I get it right. I'd guess writing it down wouldn't be a bad idea! Very Happy

Thanks again,
Don

Ernie Pollock · From: Mt Savage, Md USA

I have recorded a ton of stuff using the Audacity program, never had a problem with it. I always run the track on to Audacity first, the play the steel or what ever instrument I am going to play on another track, sometimes multitracking also. I have made a lot of CD's like this. & believe me, I am not a sound engineer or anything like that, although I have recorded in some nice little professional studios for other folks. I still use my Tascam 4 track sometimes, it just seems like its a 'softer' sound, I may be crazy on that, don't know, then I run that those tracks through a BBE into the Audicity program. Keep at it, you will get it going if you don't give up.

Ernie Pollock
mailto:shobud75@hotmail.com

Leon Carpenter · From: Missouri, USA

I send a BIAB file to a Yamaha MD4S recorder. I edit it in real time as I record it in stereo. When I am happy with the track I save and name it. I send this track into the mike in of the Sony lap top. By using the monitor out of the MD4S I can reduce the signal to the sony for a clean signal. This signal is sent to Cool Edit Pro 2 as stereo 2 trk. Record it in real time watching the monitor level. Save it as a session,name it what ever. Open it.send it to multi-track.select new track name it bass--etc.choose record,left or right or stereo. Plug into the Md4S direct in,line in, what ever. Using the monitor out to control, over all gain. Check for correct signal on screen and push record. You are recording cd quality. With 128 tracks to get it right. Full edit,effects,pitch correction,the works. I don't claim to know a lot about recording but this works for me and the program was free. You can listen to the source track as well as your track with no latency problems. If I can help email me at fivestringfan@ktis.net Leon Carpenter

Jody Suchard · From: Picton,Ontario, Canada

I have heard that this is the lil box needed for recording from amp or guitar to computer without latency because it has a USB interface , give it a try guys and gals , I also know there is a special cord you can buy with usb plug that loses the latency.heres the link for box.hope it helps.
http://www.m-audio.com/index.php?do=products.main&ID=4d633dd1d79f79596dc44e8a2a0da454

Don Brown, Sr. · From: New Jersey

Hi Jack,

Ok, On a Dell Dimension E-520 those choices are:
Line-In
Rear Mic
Microphone

I went into the sound system (recording dept) and right clicked to no avail. There are no other choices.

I found that I could do a Stereo Mix using the Line-In, but I also found out that the recording sucks using the E-520 for some strange reason.

I'm now going to try using a DI along with a USB Interface and see what happens, with it running me past the built in sound system.

Will let you know what happens.

PS: Has anyone ever heard of recording, while playing the backup track loaded into Audacity, and regardless what you do, the recording comes out way, way flat?

To check it out, I recorded the track with Mic In, while playing it back, and then played it back. Guess what! The actual track playing that I recorded with Mic-In, came out exactly as flat as when I recorded the steel.

How can that be,,,,,,,,,,,,, ?

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