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Topic: Nut position and fret board length |
Rick Hanzlik
From:
Utah, USA
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Posted 1 Jan 2010 3:45 pm |
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I have a lap steel that has a very cheap wooden nut. In fact the nut has splintered a little on one end already. I would like to replace the nut and the fret board. I am having a new nut made from a piece of round stainless steel. the question I have is about the positioning of the nut. From the two drawings below, you can get a feel fro the different in nut shape. The issue I have is that with the new round nut the point at which the strings intersect the nut is about 1/4" further back then the original nut. Will I need to adjust the length and position of the fret board to take this into account? does the fret board need to be measured from the point of intersection or from the front edge of the round nut?
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Andy Sandoval
From:
Bakersfield, California, USA
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Posted 1 Jan 2010 4:45 pm
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Rick, I'm no expert but I'm gonna guess that the new round nut is gonna throw the scale length off a tad. Is there any adjustment at the bridge end to compensate? Also if you make an adjustment by moving the scale length forward or back a tad it's gonna throw off the fret markers by the same difference. I think I would try and duplicate the original nut if at all possible to keeep the original scale length. I'm sure others will chime in here with some good ideas soon.  |
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Don McGregor
From:
Memphis, Tennessee
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Posted 1 Jan 2010 4:46 pm
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| Point of string contact. |
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Dom Franco
From:
Beaverton, OR, 97007
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Posted 1 Jan 2010 4:47 pm
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All the fret positions will be wrong and worst of all the bridge will be out and must be moved.
You will need to:
Replace the fretboard with a new one to reflect the longer scale length, or:
Move the bridge to the proper location and shorten the 1st fret by 1/4"
Better yet make a nut out of 1/2" Steel angle stock and put it in the correct location.
Dom Franco
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https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCYG9cvwCPKuXpGofziPNieA/feed?activity_view=3 |
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Steinar Gregertsen
From:
Arendal, Norway, R.I.P.
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Posted 1 Jan 2010 5:29 pm
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| Dom Franco wrote: |
Move the bridge to the proper location and shorten the 1st fret by 1/4"
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If you shorten the fretboard between the 1st fret and end of the fretboard, then you won't need to move the bridge, will you? Check this close-up of a GeorgeBoards, the strings' contact point is where it would be with a 'normal' nut:
_________________
"Play to express, not to impress"
Website - YouTube |
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Tom Pettingill
From:
California, USA (deceased)
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Posted 1 Jan 2010 5:36 pm
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| Quote: |
| Will I need to adjust the length and position of the fret board to take this into account? |
As was mentioned, yes, you will need to make the new fretboard to reflect the new scale length if you are moving the nut.
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| ... does the fret board need to be measured from the point of intersection or from the front edge of the round nut? |
Well, the scale length needs to be measured from the "point of intersection" / break point of the nut to bridge. The actual end of fret board could stop at the nut or carry on under the nut depending on how you are mounting it.
edit: ... or as Steinar points out, a picture is worth a 1000 words
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Some misc pics of my hand crafted steels
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Alan Brookes
From:
Brummy living in Southern California
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Posted 1 Jan 2010 6:07 pm
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| Your frets will definitely be out. Steinar's suggestion is a lot simpler than making a new fingerboard. |
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Billy Gilbert
From:
Texas, USA
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Posted 1 Jan 2010 6:23 pm New nut???
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| Just grind or machine a quarter inch off the new nut so that the string contact point will be at the original location. The 12th fret needs to be exactly half way between the contact points on the bridge and the nut. Measure from the center of your bridge to the center of the 12th fret, and set your nut the same distance from the 12th fret. |
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Rick Hanzlik
From:
Utah, USA
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Posted 1 Jan 2010 6:27 pm
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| Thanks all, Since I am planning on making a new fret board anyway, I'll just adjust it for the new nut. I may also replace the bridge so I will need to make several tweaks as I modify this guitar. |
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Dom Franco
From:
Beaverton, OR, 97007
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Alan Brookes
From:
Brummy living in Southern California
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Posted 2 Jan 2010 11:26 am
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| I have an Excel spreadsheet which can calculate fret positions for any instrument. Just type in the distance from bridge to nut and all the arithmetic is done for you. Anyone who wants a copy should email me at afbrookes@aol.com. |
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Rick Hanzlik
From:
Utah, USA
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Posted 2 Jan 2010 5:00 pm
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I found and downloaded a copy of the program Wfret. Seems to work pretty good. One issue I seem to have with these cheap guitars is that the distance from nut to bridge doesn't seem to be "standard" Partly because of the bridge system that is used on these guitars.
The bridge is the type normally found on a regular guitar with adjustable intonation (see photo below). However, Using the suggestion Mr. Franco left, If I measure from the nut to the center of the twelfth fret, I get about 10.625" So that would give me a scale length of 21.25"
So my thought is, replace both nut and bridge with Round stock and adjust the positions and fret board to match. Maybe more work then it's worth but hey all I git is time anyway.
Thansk all. |
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Alan Brookes
From:
Brummy living in Southern California
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Posted 2 Jan 2010 5:55 pm
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| I'm a great believer in using round stock for both bridge and nut. It distributes the tension better and won't stick, as some nuts do. What's more, the area of string in contact with the bridge is greater, which improves sustain. I like to use threaded rod or tube, because you don't need to notch is to keep the strings in position, and changing the string spacing is as easy as slacking the tension off and sliding the strings to one side or the other. |
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George Piburn
From:
The Land of Enchantment New Mexico
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Posted 2 Jan 2010 6:21 pm edit
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edit
Last edited by George Piburn on 23 Jun 2012 8:16 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Gary Stevenson
From:
Northern New York,USA
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Posted 2 Jan 2010 7:05 pm
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| I will only disagree with George on this one point:half the fun in building lap steels is learning how to get around problems.I think the master of this is Mr.Brookes.Anyway, if you use decent nut and bridge materials and put a decent pickup on it, I think you can retrieve most crappy lap steels. A lot of the time,with the exception of tone wood,the body holds all of the major components, and is not as big a factor in the end result. Just my two cents. |
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Dom Franco
From:
Beaverton, OR, 97007
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Posted 2 Jan 2010 8:46 pm
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| Quote: |
The bridge is the type normally found on a regular guitar with adjustable intonation (see photo below). However, Using the suggestion Mr. Franco left, If I measure from the nut to the center of the twelfth fret, I get about 10.625" So that would give me a scale length of 21.25" |
You should not measure to the "center" of the 12th, fret... but to the actual 12th fret position (octave above the open string) this is where the strongest harmonic is found, and is the precise middle of the string length.
Dom
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https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCYG9cvwCPKuXpGofziPNieA/feed?activity_view=3 |
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