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Topic: sales fell |
Jimmie Martin
From:
Ohio, USA
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Posted 14 Dec 2009 6:07 am |
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How low have steel guitar sales fell? How low have the prices fallen? Its good to know these things. Some political people have predicted that the recession has hit bottom and some have said that it will be a long time before it does. Whats your thoughts on the subject? This topic is for views not fights and arguments. Take fights and arguments elsewhere, I'll have them deleted.This is serious business.  |
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Scott Howard
From:
Georgetown, TN, USA
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Posted 14 Dec 2009 6:18 am
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I don't think we have hit bottom yet. When you see a Zum D-10 on ebay and the first time around no bids at 1500.00 we are in bad times. It did get bids the second time around.
I don't see it getting better anytime soon. Just my opinion .
On a brighter note , nice work Jimmie. I have the wood for a body but just waiting until I get the rest figured out.
_________________
"The Oddball" A MSA Keyless with pedals to the right. |
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Kevin Hatton
From:
Buffalo, N.Y.
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Posted 14 Dec 2009 6:58 am
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| You have not seen bottom yet. Sales are still falling and will continue. The steel community is old and selling all their steels at the same time. |
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Barry Hyman
From:
upstate New York, USA
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Posted 14 Dec 2009 7:18 am
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Two separate questions. As for the recession at large, things will pick up in the spring. But America is gradually being turned into what we used to call a "third world" country. After each economic slump, things recover, but the real standard of living for most of us never recovers 100%. I've read that per capita income in the US peaked in the 1960's, if you adjust for inflation. The investors and militarists and rabid profit-takers are gradually milking the wealth out of this country, and the days when America was #1 in important things like health care or low infant mortality may never come again.
As for the pedal steel market, when I look at how beautifully crafted my new Williams is, it horrifies me that poor Bill Rudolph only got $36oo for it. With the amount of work put into it, it is hard to imagine how he could be making much more than minimum wage. And I notice that of the hundreds of guitar students that have seen my psg in action, not one has yet decided to buy one. I don't know what was different back when all of us old timers got pedal steel fever, but nowadays all the young folks seem to love the sound but be scared of something that requires so much hard work. Are young people lazier now than we were when we were young? I doubt it, but maybe. More likely we just didn't know what we were getting into when we bought our first pedal steels.
In terms of musical interest, I truly see a resurgence of interest in the pedal steel sound and what it can do, the best news since the dark days when Nashville kicked all the steel players out of the studio. So there seem to be more pedal steel fans out there in the last few years, but it might be a long time before that translates into improved sales for new or used instruments. But I try every day as hard as I can to make my pedal steel fever contagious. What else can we do?
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I give music lessons on several different instruments in Cambridge, NY (between Bennington, VT and Albany, NY). But my true love is pedal steel. I've been obsessed with steel since 1972; don't know anything I'd rather talk about... www.barryhyman.com |
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Bob Hickish
From:
Port Ludlow, Washington, USA, R.I.P.
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Posted 14 Dec 2009 7:34 am
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we will be rich in music , but the rest is going down
with the help of our good friends  |
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Scott Howard
From:
Georgetown, TN, USA
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Posted 14 Dec 2009 7:46 am
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Barry
I see the problem as expence. How many students could come up with the price of a used pro or student model? I deal with the average Joe everyday at work. The majority of them are broke and bairly getting by. I see them everyday stuggling to buy just what they have to have to keep there car going. I see parents and grandparents coming in to pay for the parts to fix the kids car. And sometimes the kid is in there 50's.
I am sure there are people with good jobs and money. However I feel there are more out of work and flipping hamburgers that simply could not lay out the price for a steel and keep the lights turned on and the baby fed. Most I see can't buy the 200.00 part they need to keep driving their car.
I do not say this to be negative but just stating what I see in dealing with the average Joe everyday. I know for myself I am going to top this year out at almost HALF of what I made 2 years ago.
I see NAFTA or "Not A Freaking Thing American" as a large part of the problem. Nothing is MADE here anymore. The factory jobs are gone and I don't see them coming back.
Again not meant to be directed at anybody or as a reply on what has been said . Just what I see from my viewpoint here in TN.
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"The Oddball" A MSA Keyless with pedals to the right. |
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Cliff Kane
From:
the late great golden state
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Posted 14 Dec 2009 8:11 am
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| Barry Hyman wrote: |
| I've read that per capita income in the US peaked in the 1960's, if you adjust for inflation. |
Yea, and the 60's were the days of double Martini lunches, red meat, and cigarettes: all the things they tell us are bad for you. This is progress?
"It's sundown on the union
that was made in the U.S.A
sure seemed like a good idea
until greed got in the way"
Dylan |
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Brad Malone
From:
Pennsylvania, USA
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Posted 14 Dec 2009 8:26 am 2 for 1
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| Hey guys, With the young people working two jobs to make the same pay as one good union job paid them...who has time to spend hours and hours learning to play Pedal Steel? Answer..very few....and most of them are living at home with Mommy and Daddy. |
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Kevin Hatton
From:
Buffalo, N.Y.
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Posted 14 Dec 2009 8:27 am
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| Barry and Scott. You are both right on. I lived through the 60's. It was when America was America. The good news is that the people who caused this situation for international profit are being confronted as we speak, and yes these jobs will will be brought back to America. If not, NAFTA means the total destruction of the middle class in this country. Believe me, things are going to change. They have to. The country can't continue like this, flooded with cheap foreign goods. No one will have a job. Pedal steel guitars will continue to be made, just not in the quantity in the past. Brad, amen. |
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Bill Moran
From:
Virginia, USA
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Posted 14 Dec 2009 9:06 am
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We have no one to blame but ourselfs. Look in your neighbors driveway, if not your own. Buying foreign cars and other items from companys that take there profit out of our country is rapidly making us 3rd world. Sure, the Japs assemble cars here and give us some jobs. China and India flood our markets with cheap items that won't last very long. That is by design to keep us buying more.
We have lost our mfg. base in this country because We the People want cheap prices. Who cares if our neighbor doesn't have a job . Once our mfg. base has been depleted, you can bet, cheap prices will be gone. We will have no more choice. You will buy foreign junk or do without. No one to blame but ourself's ! Thank you Bill Clinton for NAFTA.
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Bill |
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Rick Winfield
From:
Pickin' beneath the Palmettos
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Posted 14 Dec 2009 9:13 am serfing the steel
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Maybe 15 years ago, I read a book called "back to serfdom".
it described the economy of the US declining, and "we" the workers, regressing into a feudal economy, or as described here, something like a "3rd world country."
Of course those who've "always had it", will continue to keep it, but for the rest of us.... 
Rick |
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CrowBear Schmitt
From:
Ariege, - PairO'knees, - France
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Posted 14 Dec 2009 10:14 am
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| Quote: |
| We have no one to blame but ourselves |
as the hippie mouvement died out, or moved on, there was "the alternative"
only a few chose that route since it seemed to be a regression to many
nevertheless consumerism kept flying high & reaping more & more folks into it's realm of illusion
honestly, do we really need half the things we buy ?
when i read it's NAFTAs fault, here again, i see the same lame excuze: " it's NOT my fault, it's his ! "
" you can't have peace in the world, when 20 % of the population got 80 % of the goods "
the scales are tilting towards those 80 % that have 20 %
natural law ain'it ?
& that ain't nothing compared to judgement day |
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Bobby Boggs
From:
Upstate SC.
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Posted 14 Dec 2009 10:16 am
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Due to topic drift. My post is no longer relevant. 
Last edited by Bobby Boggs on 14 Dec 2009 2:00 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Brad Malone
From:
Pennsylvania, USA
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Posted 14 Dec 2009 10:59 am Crowbear is on to something
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SAN FRANCISCO, Dec 21 (OneWorld) - The richest 2 percent of adults in the world own more than half the world's wealth, according to a new study released by the Helsinki-based World Institute for Development Economics Research of the United Nations University.
The study's authors say their work is the most comprehensive study of personal wealth ever undertaken. They found the richest 1 percent of adults owned 40 percent of global assets in the year 2000, and that the richest 10 percent of adults accounted for 85 percent of the world's total.
In contrast, the assets of half of the world's adult population account for barely 1 percent of global wealth. |
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Tracy Sheehan
From:
Fort Worth, Texas, USA
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Posted 14 Dec 2009 1:06 pm Steel sales.
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After many years of playing for a living i went back to the basics and learning all over again.
I went back to an 8 string non pedal and it is slowley coming back.I can fully understand now why Tommy Morrell went back to non pedal. What was once called pop,swing,country,what ever can be done on a non pedal.And yes together again can be done and no one can tell i am not usiing pedals.
Wish i had learned years ago that most of the pedal stuff can be done on a non pedal.It does take some work and many bar slants but is fun learning all over again and got me intrested in steel again.
And a new non pedal doesn' doesn't wipe out the bank account. |
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Chris Lucker
From:
Los Angeles, California USA
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Posted 14 Dec 2009 1:21 pm
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| The market and sales prices of quality rare pedal steels such as excellent Emmons Wraparounds and Bigsbys is just as strong as ever. But, quality Bigsbys are rare and Wraparounds are even rarer. It is the more easily found instruments that take a hit. |
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Jimmie Martin
From:
Ohio, USA
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Posted 14 Dec 2009 2:15 pm steels
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| I sometimes believe that we don't need the stock market. I feel like that is where a lot of our money goes and they know to whom to direct it to. I think i said that right. |
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Robert Parent
From:
Gillette, WY
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Posted 14 Dec 2009 2:27 pm
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Pedal steels are cheap when compared to most other instruments. I also play mandolin and mandola and the price of those are way more than a new steel. There are deals to be had on the use market if someone really wants to learn. Kids have money just look around and see how many have cell phones, computers, cars, and other things.
I don't see many of the younger generation with the desire to stick with and learn much of anything, most want instant satisfaction or it's off to something else.
The price of new steels have not even kept up with inflation. I really don't know how the builders make any money given the costs to run a business. Back in the 70's I paid $1300.00 for a new Sho Bud today a new whatever is < $5000.00. When one compares wages then to now, today's deals are amazing for a custom built instrument. |
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Rick Campbell
From:
Sneedville, TN, USA
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Posted 14 Dec 2009 2:44 pm
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"How well steel guitars are selling". Now there's an accurate indication of the status of our economy. Get real!
I'm 50 and all I can ever remember hearing is how the government is destroying our country. How "they" are taking everything we make, and wasting it. How Social Security will not be available when it's time for me to sign up, how everything is too expensive, etc... all the negative things. I heard it in the 60's, 70's, 80's, 90's, and now. It seems that the present (whenever it is) is always bad.
Prices are outrageous. A new computer for $300..... used to be $thousands. My cell phone bill is about $100..... used to be several hundred for less usage. I bought the first digital camera Casio in 1996...cost me $400, now you can buy a much better one for $20. $0.42 to mail a letter??? Oh my God, we're in the poor house. Do like I do, pay your bills online or by phone with a credit card.
All you people that are bitching about NAFTA and the foreign manufactures. I'd like to examine your shopping cart at Walmart. You can buy many items in Made in USA or foreign versions, if you're willing to pay the price difference........ but how many do it? WE creat the market here for foreign goods. If we don't buy them they will stop importing them.
Not me. I believe it's a global economy. I'll buy whatever suits my needs the most, I don't care where it's made. Rome, GA or Rome, Italy doesn't matter to me.
I think we have to be honest with ourselves first, before we start pointing the fingers at others.
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Bill Moran
From:
Virginia, USA
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Posted 14 Dec 2009 4:14 pm
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| Rick Campbell wrote: |
"How well steel guitars are selling". Now there's an accurate indication of the status of our economy. Get real!
#1 If we don't buy them they will stop importing them.
#2 I think we have to be honest with ourselves first, before we start pointing the fingers at others.
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I agree with you Rick. We only have to look at ourself's to see why 20% of the nation is unemployed. When we buy $300. computers built by a nation that payes there labor force $1.50 a day or
don't think of the future when buying a burger from McDonalds that uses South American Beef , we are at fault. I really think Postage will stabilize. We had several more new postal workers crawl under the fence today.
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Bill |
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Chris Lucker
From:
Los Angeles, California USA
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Posted 14 Dec 2009 4:41 pm
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| How postal rates are established is curious to watch from a political perspective. Some of the greatest political pressure to keep first class mail rates low comes from UPS and FedEx -- interests that do not want their quasi-governmental competitor to subsidize shipping costs with profits from mail. As long as mail rates are low, the US Post Office will have to maintain higher shipping rates to balance the books. |
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Rick Campbell
From:
Sneedville, TN, USA
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Posted 14 Dec 2009 5:16 pm
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Bill,
I'm not sure if you really agree with me or not, but we're both telling it like it is. Here's an example: Harbor Freight Tools. Everything they sale is imported, mostly from China. Now we both know, and everybody else should realize, that if we stop shopping there and buy all our tools from an American made company........ then Harbor Freight will close the doors. So who's fault is it? I'm sure we both know people that complain all the time about the foreign wages, imports, etc... and then when they need something they buy the cheaper import rather than pay more for American made. That's a double standard. So, is the solution to have the government not allow imported goods? But wait, we're already saying that the government has too much control over our lives. Are we so foolish that we need the government to protect us from ourselves, but we deny that too?
I think one thing that has to be done is to get the minimum wage up to the point where it's better to work than to draw welfare. But, that's another part of the catch 22 and more wages means higher prices for the goods. Can't have it both ways.
On thing related to unemployment. You'll appreciate this because of where you live. One of the coal mines I do business with opened a new mine this summer. I heard that they had a hard time getting enough people to work at the mine. Not because there was a shortage of qualified applicants, but because they couldn't pass a drug test. So, anyone drawing unemployment show be subject to random drug test. Positive test, no more benefits. But, we've got to take care of the kids, so it's now welfare time.
I don't have the answers. I wish I did. I agree with you about the McDonalds hamburgers. If you really want to support American grown, don't eat Micky D's burgers. People don't think about that because it's insignificant... just a burger. The attitude has crept upon us that wrong is something somebody else does that has a negative impact on us.
I din't expect this thread to last. So, I think strings and picks cost too much, and it's congress and senates fault and they have no sympathy on the poor old steel guitar player that spends $4000 on an instrument that he'll probably never make enough money playing to pay for.
All this stuff is why I'd rather play benefit shows for needy people, especially kids and animals, and not get money mixed up in my hobby so much. I can enjoy it more this way.
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Rick Campbell
From:
Sneedville, TN, USA
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Posted 14 Dec 2009 5:38 pm
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Excuse me - completely off topic
For Bill Moran,
Do you guys still have the hot and cold water tanks? I've been up that way several times lately, but I don't remember seeing them.
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Bill Moran
From:
Virginia, USA
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Posted 14 Dec 2009 5:46 pm
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Rick, I think so ? I still have hot and cold water ! 
We are off topic. Higher wages, higher prices. Low prices with foreign goods, no jobs. 3rd world or welfare. I guess if we continue to give our country to the East we need to be glad our government has welfare. Drugs should be addressed. Stop them or make them legal and collect tax !
We both made our point.
By the way, If China made steel guitar strings the 3rd would be big as a pedal rod so it could last all night ! 
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Bill |
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Rick Campbell
From:
Sneedville, TN, USA
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Posted 14 Dec 2009 6:50 pm
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Bill, Yep, we're on the same page. I'm make it a point to check on the hot and cold tanks Saturday. I've got a gig in Blackburg.
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