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Topic: Augmented and Diminished chords |
Gary Arnold
From:
Panhandle of Florida, USA
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Posted 20 Nov 2009 8:42 pm |
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Where or when do you use these chords?   Thanks, Gary |
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Larry Bressington
From:
Nebraska
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Posted 20 Nov 2009 9:13 pm
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Where and whenever it needs it! 
Augmented work great on 5 chords.
Diminished is b5 b3, normally used in C C# Dm G9 etc
Dimished scale works great if you up half step on a 5
chord ex;
Key of C when G7 comes up, play a G# diminshed scale or Arpeggio.
_________________
A.K.A Chappy.
Last edited by Larry Bressington on 20 Nov 2009 10:11 pm; edited 3 times in total |
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Billy Tonnesen
From:
R.I.P., Buena Park, California
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Posted 20 Nov 2009 9:39 pm
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| Find a good Lead Guitar player that really knows chord progresseions. Let him or her show you where these chords are or can be used and some example songs. Once you get used to the sound of these chords you will start finding places to use or insert them. In many songs they can be excellent passing chords. You will need to set up certain pedal and knee combinatios to get the full chords. |
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Raybob Bowman
From:
S. Lake Tahoe, CA, USA
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Posted 21 Nov 2009 12:52 am Re: Augmented and Diminished chords
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| Gary Arnold wrote: |
| Where or when do you use these chords? Thanks, Gary |
You use them wherever you can't fit an abolished or demented chord.
Ever play "Georgia"? "The whole day through..." next chord 4# diminished.
_________________
Sierra U12 4+5 / 1933 Dobro / homemade Tele B-bender |
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Mike Perlowin
From:
Los Angeles CA
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Posted 21 Nov 2009 1:43 am
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In the song "Angel Flying too close to the ground," in the line " leave me if you need to, I will remember...." the diminished chord comes in on the "member" syllable of the word remember.
_________________
Please visit my web site and Soundcloud page and listen to the music posted there.
http://www.mikeperlowin.com http://soundcloud.com/mike-perlowin |
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Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 21 Nov 2009 8:12 am
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A diminished chord is very close to a 7th chord.
For instance a C7th chord is: C E G Bb
An E diminished chord is: E G Bb
Quite often I substitue a diminished chord for a 7th when I'm writing tab. |
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Raybob Bowman
From:
S. Lake Tahoe, CA, USA
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Posted 21 Nov 2009 8:52 am Re: Augmented and Diminished chords
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| Gary Arnold wrote: |
| Where or when do you use these chords?.. |
You use them when the rest of the band uses them. If they don't (but should) and you do, you stand out like a sore thumb. If they do (but shouldn't) and you don't, you stand out like a sore thumb.
_________________
Sierra U12 4+5 / 1933 Dobro / homemade Tele B-bender |
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Bo Legg
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Posted 21 Nov 2009 3:52 pm
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Dims and augs mix together very well in an arrangement.
There are only 3 dim chords and 2 aug chords so you have a 33.333% chance with the dim chord and a 50% chance with the aug chord to get it right.
Sometimes in both cases at times the wrong one will sound alright.
Both are subs for dom chords and as such need to be resolved.
I think the best use is as a passing chord or as an exaggeration to gain attention.
I don’t like to put names on aug or dim chords (it's no help) but rather learn where they are on the neck in relation to the chord you're resolving to.
Here are just a few simple examples of how to use dim and aug chords in this manor.
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Roger Miller
From:
Cedar Falls, Ia.
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Posted 22 Nov 2009 2:12 pm
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| Go buy a Mickey Baker Jazz guitar #1 and it will show you how to use them and how to build progressions. Believe me with my ADD I was able to keep on this book and learn. If you want to learn how to play those and build lines you have to figure out how to make the chords, or have one hell of a ear. |
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Herb Steiner
From:
Briarcliff TX 78669, pop. 2,064
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Posted 22 Nov 2009 4:42 pm
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| Raybob Bowman wrote: |
| You use them when the rest of the band uses them. If they don't (but should) and you do, you stand out like a sore thumb. If they do (but shouldn't) and you don't, you stand out like a sore thumb. |
Not correct. Dims and augs can be used as momentary passing chords with great effect if the proper amount of time or emphasis is placed on them by the soloist.
If a single chord, played vertically by all members of the band, is viewed through a stationary microscope, apart from the context of the song, there may be some simultaneous dissonance FOR THAT SECOND. But thankfully, music is never listened to in that context.
Rather, music is a moving thing that travels laterally over the staff and through the ears of the listener. Not all members of the band have to be playing leading tones or passing chords for an effective soloist to tell the band and audience where the changes are headed.
I can play a chromatic scale over a C major chord and what I play will sound correct, though 9 of the notes will theoretically be "wrong." There are no incorrect notes, only incorrect emphasis.
_________________
My rig: Infinity and Telonics.
Son, we live in a world with walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with steel guitars. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Lt. Weinberg? |
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Brett Lanier
From:
Hermitage, TN
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Posted 22 Nov 2009 9:55 pm
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Right on Herb! And one of the great things about the pedal steel is that you can play aug & dim chords on a simple country tune when very few instruments could make it sound good.
Take a simple country balad. Just before the 1 chord goes to the 4, augment it. Then right before the 4 chord goes back to the 1(or to the 5), play a diminished chord (F, F#dim).
| Quote: |
| There are only 3 dim chords and 2 aug chords so you have a 33.333% chance with the dim chord and a 50% chance with the aug chord to get it right. |
This is correct if you say scale instead of chord. There are lots of dim and aug chords. Augmented chords work every 4 frets (for normal songs). They seem to work every 2 frets better for playing jazz. But recognizing the difference is important. Every 4 frets has more chord tones, making it still sound like you are augmenting a chord, rather than just jumping into the wholetone scale. |
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Bob Simons
From:
Kansas City, Mo, USA
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Posted 23 Nov 2009 8:26 am
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Add my vote for the Mickey Baker Jazz Guitar book- Personally I never got past page 4, but that was enough for a whole career as a blues guitar player!
Actually Ranger Doug of "Riders in the Sky" says everything he ever plays in Western Swing is found in the first 6 pages.....
_________________
Zumsteel U12 8-5, MSA M3 U12 9-7, MSA SS 10-string, 1930 National Resonophonic, Telonics Combo, Webb 614e, Fender Steel King, Mesa Boogie T-Verb. |
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Bo Legg
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Posted 23 Nov 2009 2:56 pm
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If I remember correctly in that Mickey Baker book The augs and dims were replaced by substituting a 9th.
Example for an A aug chord you would sub an (Eb)9 chord and for an A dim you would sub a D9 chord. Of course you could progress those up the neck every 2frets for the aug and every 3 frets for the dim. Some sound good and some bad.
It seems that augs and dims were not highly regarded in Jazz. Book One was great but I never got much use out of Mickeys book #2. |
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Bob Simons
From:
Kansas City, Mo, USA
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Posted 23 Nov 2009 3:24 pm
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The only use I got out of it was from leaving it on the music stand creating the impression that i understood or could use any of it!
_________________
Zumsteel U12 8-5, MSA M3 U12 9-7, MSA SS 10-string, 1930 National Resonophonic, Telonics Combo, Webb 614e, Fender Steel King, Mesa Boogie T-Verb. |
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Rick Myrland
From:
New Orleans
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Posted 10 Dec 2009 11:00 am
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A diminished chord is very close to a 7th chord.
For instance a C7th chord is: C E G Bb
An E diminished chord is: E G Bb
Quite often I substitue a diminished chord for a 7th when I'm writing tab.
Okay, so I understand that if the 7th chord (or any extended chord) is played you add a fourth note to the chord. What I am having trouble understanding is how do you get the 4th note when you are only playing a three string inversion with your right hand? Do you pluck the four notes individually but in immediate succession?
I'm studying Buddy Emmons chord chart and listening to his CD and it seems he often plays three or four strings individually, not plucking them in a single grasp. This may sound pretty rudimentary, but how you play a 4 note chord with three fingers? |
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Bob Simons
From:
Kansas City, Mo, USA
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Posted 10 Dec 2009 11:14 am
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AHAH! That's what you've got a bass player for!
_________________
Zumsteel U12 8-5, MSA M3 U12 9-7, MSA SS 10-string, 1930 National Resonophonic, Telonics Combo, Webb 614e, Fender Steel King, Mesa Boogie T-Verb. |
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Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 10 Dec 2009 1:26 pm
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Rick,
It really isn't neceassary to play all four notes of the chord. Like Bob said, somebody else can fill in the blanks. The reason you can substitute one chord for another is because you aren't playing all the notes of the chord.
If you see a 6th chord on a piece of music, you can substitute a minor chord.
For example, a C6th chord is C E G A.
The notes in an A minor chord are A C E.
Close enough for government work  |
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Roual Ranes
From:
Atlanta, Texas, USA
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Posted 10 Dec 2009 5:36 pm
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Raybob,
I was told that they were "argumental" and "demolished" chords.
Herb,
Right on............thanks for speaking up!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
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Rick Myrland
From:
New Orleans
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Posted 11 Dec 2009 6:02 am
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So I think I just had a eureka moment. So if someone else is “filing in the blanks” as Erv and Bob suggest, does that mean if the lead player is playing a C major I'm free to play a C7 and vice versa? Should the steel and the lead try to refrain from both playing extended chords at the same time, or is that a matter of taste? Perhaps it's time I get out of the bedroom and start playing with others.
And while I’m at it, Herb said augmented and diminished chords can be used as “momentary passing chords.” I’ve seen this come up before, so does that mean for example if you’re going from a G to a C you can slide to a G7 on the way to the C? And would you literally be passing thru the G7 or would you spend a few beats there?
I realize these may seem pretty rudimentary questions for most of you, but I feel like simply learning intro and fills from tabs is not going to get me the level of understanding that I need in order to have the confidence to leave the bedroom. Thanks so much for all your help. |
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Ernest Cawby
From:
Lake City, Florida, USA, R.I.P.
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Posted 11 Dec 2009 7:39 am Hi
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jEFF nEWMANS THOUGHT ON THIS WAS TO USE THEM AS PASSING CHORDS
DO NOT STAY ON THEM LONG.
ERNIE |
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Herb Steiner
From:
Briarcliff TX 78669, pop. 2,064
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Posted 11 Dec 2009 8:12 am
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In terms of time duration, dims and augs are rarely used longer than one measure. I'm sure there are exceptions, but one doesn't come to mind at the moment.
Generally, dominant chords (those with b7 notes), diminished, and augmented chords are considered "tension" chords, and are thus seeking "resolution" chords... predominantly major chords and non-dominant minor chords.
Tension chords tell the listener "we're going somewhere with this sound," and resolution chords announce "okay, we're there; at least for the time being."
_________________
My rig: Infinity and Telonics.
Son, we live in a world with walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with steel guitars. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Lt. Weinberg? |
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Bent Romnes
From:
London,Ontario, Canada
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Posted 11 Dec 2009 8:39 am
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Ernie, That's right. Jeff called them a DS chord(Do Something)
Hit it and get off it quickly, and onto the chord it's supposed to resolve into
Herb, it's like you said: Tension chords tell the listener "we're going somewhere with this sound,"
_________________
BenRom Pedal Steel Guitars
https://www.facebook.com/groups/212050572323614/ |
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Raybob Bowman
From:
S. Lake Tahoe, CA, USA
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Posted 11 Dec 2009 9:01 am
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| Herb Steiner wrote: |
...Generally, dominant chords (those with b7 notes), diminished, and augmented chords are considered "tension" chords, and are thus seeking "resolution" chords... predominantly major chords and non-dominant minor chords.
Tension chords tell the listener "we're going somewhere with this sound," and resolution chords announce "okay, we're there; at least for the time being." |
True but if the band pays a 4# diminished and the steeler is still playing the 4 chord, talk about tension!
_________________
Sierra U12 4+5 / 1933 Dobro / homemade Tele B-bender |
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Mike Perlowin
From:
Los Angeles CA
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Posted 11 Dec 2009 9:02 am
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I think of these kinds of chords as spices in food. A little can add a lot of flavor. Too much and the dish (or the song) gets ruined.
_________________
Please visit my web site and Soundcloud page and listen to the music posted there.
http://www.mikeperlowin.com http://soundcloud.com/mike-perlowin |
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Brian LeBlanc
From:
Falls Church, Virginia, USA
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Posted 11 Dec 2009 10:57 am what I like about these
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what I like about these chords
is that you can sound like your playn' Jass
...& barely even know what key the tunes in!
_________________
'Frenchy' LeBlanc...
ShoBud & Twins |
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