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Topic: Opinions on which bender is the best? |
James Mayer
From:
back in Portland Oregon, USA (via Arkansas and London, UK)
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Posted 3 Dec 2009 8:51 am |
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I can only think of three:
Duesenberg Multibender
Bigsby palm pedal
Hipshot.
The Bigsby Palm Pedal site is pretty useless. It doesn't describe how to actually purchase one. I have a feeling they've been discontinued.
The Duesenberg will be more than $400 and has to be ordered from Europe.
The Hipshot looks good but I'm not interested in the knee lever. I want something like the Duesenberg with 2 or 3 palm levers.
Any opinions? |
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Rick Batey
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Posted 3 Dec 2009 9:16 am
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| One more: the Epiphone E-Z Bender. Not saying it's good... just that it exists! |
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James Mayer
From:
back in Portland Oregon, USA (via Arkansas and London, UK)
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Posted 3 Dec 2009 9:31 am
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| Rick Batey wrote: |
| One more: the Epiphone E-Z Bender. Not saying it's good... just that it exists! |
That looks like it requires a seperate tailpiece and bridge. I don't see many steel guitars that have both. I wonder if it would work on a stop tailpiece alone, like the Rondo SX. |
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Mike Neer
From:
NJ
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Posted 3 Dec 2009 10:08 am
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James, this is strictly my opinion and if it's not welcome, I apologize in advance.
How married to the idea of bending strings are you? To me, it seems that the steel guitarist needs his right hand completely to play--using any kind of palm bender is a big compromise. Some players get away with doing it OK, but what stopped them from just getting a simple pedal steel guitar? I think that ultimately your time and money will be better spent just getting a basic pedal steel and learning it. You can get an 8 string, doesn't have to be a Nashville E9 tuning. Also, Bill Hatcher has a 6 string pedal steel for sale which looks very cool.
I just think that if that sound is so important to have why not just do it the way that's been proven is the best? Using your feet and knees makes a lot more sense to me than palm levers, especially when you will be presented with technical limitations.
For what it's worth, I've had Hipshots and, while they are cool novelties, take way more effort and time than I'd be willing to give to it (this is regular guitar).
_________________
Links to streaming music, websites, YouTube: Links |
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Ryan Barwin
From:
Hamilton, Ontario, Canada
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Posted 3 Dec 2009 10:10 am
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| James Mayer wrote: |
That looks like it requires a seperate tailpiece and bridge. I don't see many steel guitars that have both. I wonder if it would work on a stop tailpiece alone, like the Rondo SX. |
If you put it on a stop tailpiece alone, the scale length of the string with the lever would be shorter than the other strings. So it wouldn't work properly and the intonation would be way out. But there's no reason you couldn't put a Gibson-style bridge and stop tailpiece on a lap steel like the Rondo, and it would work just fine.
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www.pedalsteel.ca |
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James Mayer
From:
back in Portland Oregon, USA (via Arkansas and London, UK)
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Posted 3 Dec 2009 10:27 am
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| Ryan Barwin wrote: |
If you put it on a stop tailpiece alone, the scale length of the string with the lever would be shorter than the other strings. So it wouldn't work properly and the intonation would be way out. |
Oh, yeah, duh. I should have realized that. |
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James Mayer
From:
back in Portland Oregon, USA (via Arkansas and London, UK)
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Posted 3 Dec 2009 10:34 am
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| Mike Neer wrote: |
James, this is strictly my opinion and if it's not welcome, I apologize in advance.
How married to the idea of bending strings are you? To me, it seems that the steel guitarist needs his right hand completely to play--using any kind of palm bender is a big compromise. Some players get away with doing it OK, but what stopped them from just getting a simple pedal steel guitar? I think that ultimately your time and money will be better spent just getting a basic pedal steel and learning it. You can get an 8 string, doesn't have to be a Nashville E9 tuning. Also, Bill Hatcher has a 6 string pedal steel for sale which looks very cool.
I just think that if that sound is so important to have why not just do it the way that's been proven is the best? Using your feet and knees makes a lot more sense to me than palm levers, especially when you will be presented with technical limitations.
For what it's worth, I've had Hipshots and, while they are cool novelties, take way more effort and time than I'd be willing to give to it (this is regular guitar). |
I actually have a 6-string pedal steel. I've been learning how to play it for a couple of weeks now. I also have a 6 string lap steel with one knee and one elbow bender. The pedal steel is obviously more flexible and versatile because it has 3 pedals and 4 knees. It's not dissatisfaction with what I have that makes me want to experiment with new things. I find I just like to experiment for the sake of it. I've got some ideas for a custom lap steel and putting benders on it is just part of the fun. |
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Mike Neer
From:
NJ
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Posted 3 Dec 2009 10:36 am
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Well, that's cool, James. Good luck with it. Sorry I couldn't offer more in the way of a review of benders.
_________________
Links to streaming music, websites, YouTube: Links |
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Roman Sonnleitner
From:
Vienna, Austria
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Posted 3 Dec 2009 11:53 am
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No experience with the other benders, but I've been using a Duesenberg Multibender for a few months.
It is very well made, and it works (unless you want to use really high tunings/light strings, and want to bend for more than a semitone with those - can't do it, because the string will break or the bender action will be too short).
I also have been dabbling on PSG for a while, but I find the Multibender much easier to use - only 6 vs. 10 strings, only 2 or 3 levers vs. 3 or more pedals and 4 or more levers (sure, you don't need to use all of them - but the unused ones do tend to get in your way...); and I also find it much easier to manipulate stuff (picks, bar, AND levers) with just my two hands, instead of trying to coordinate four limbs to do different motions at the same time...
But indeed I do also have to change my right hand technique when switching from my 8-string lap steel to my Multibender-equipped 6-string LS - it's almost impossible to pick strings with fingers other than the thumb while pressing down the lever, so I use my thumb(-pick) a lot more, and use strumming for chords or double stops, instead of picking them with 2 or 3 fingers. Palm blocking is also not possible while keeping down a bender lever.
So I do play more "chordal" with the bender LS, and single note playing is limited to slower stuff at the moment (I guess it will get better/faster with more practice).
One more thing to consider when thinking about PSG vs a LS with a bender: the choice may not only be determined by what can be done with both - it's also a matter of practicality/transportability: the PSG takes me at least 15 minutes to put it together and get in tune, the bender-LS I just take out of the gigbag, and I'm ready to go; the LS I sling over my shoulder, then walk down the 3 floors of my apartment building (no elevator...), and take the subway or bus to the rehearsal place, with the PSG I'd definitely need to use my car, and that takes twice as long in this city of traffic jams and no close parking spaces...
The PSG would not even fit on some of the stages in tiny bars and cafes that I'm playing at with my singer-songwriter duo, with bender-LS it's no problem...
I sometimes go to jam sessions, where I play along for 2 or 3 songs with the bender LS - imagine doing that with a PSG - everybody would hate you if you had to set up that unwieldy monster for just a few songs...
So, yes, sure, you can do much more on PSG (but only if you really CAN do it, which is much harder than using the bender for a few simple I-IV-V changes...) - but ther may be other (non-musical) reasons that make a bender a more practical and viable option! |
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Steve Norman
From:
Seattle Washington, USA
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Posted 3 Dec 2009 12:06 pm
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I got to play this guitar
scroll to bottom
http://www.zeroguitars.com/
It was tuned c6 and the bends were subtle maybe like 5 and 6 on a c6 pedal steel. It was cool sounding, still lappy and not pedally.
I think the guy from zero makes the bigsby palms himself under license. he is here in Seattle somewhere, so it may be relative to your interest to contact him and come up. From what I have read from your posts in the past, I think that that you would love his steels. The have a cool bite, and sound great overdriven.
The thing I like most about the Duesenberg Multibender is the built in capo. Having open strings in multiple keys sounds exciting. I would use that for more rockish bands and save myself the headache of setting up the steel to just be drowned out. I myself plan on getting either the Duesenberg Multibender or a zero for just such purposes, running them through overdrive into a big muff and a polyphaser stereo into 2 twins with the purpose of smashing the state.
_________________
GFI D10, Fender Steel King, Hilton Vpedal,BoBro, National D dobro, Marrs RGS |
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G Strout
From:
Carabelle, Florida
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Posted 3 Dec 2009 9:36 pm
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I would go with the Dusenberg. I wrote to Bigsby a few months back before I ordered the Dusenberg. I got a slow response about having just completed a move and it would be awhile before everything was up and running again. They sent some files that were hard to understand about the various models etc.
I went right to the Rockinger website and they sent the Multibender... no stories, no BS. fast shipping!! Popped right in.... works great!! I am ordering another after Christmas. Quality product. |
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John Billings
From:
Ohio, USA
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Posted 4 Dec 2009 7:44 am
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I've been using a Hipshot since the mid 80s. But not on lapsteel. Non of my laps have enough space between the bridge and the end of the guitar. But if the body shape on yours is more guitar-like, a Hipshot might fit. I'm sure you could order one without the lever, and just with one or two palm levers. But you won't be able to use them on adjacent strings. The area on the palm lever that the axle goes through is just too wide. But you could do it on, say, strings 2 and 4, 3 and 5, etc..
As for having to compromise your right hand, well,, that hasn't been an issue for me. I play everything finger style, and I play the "palm" lever with my wrist, as the lever can be rotated to any position. I also put the trem bar under my wrist when playing my Strat. Makes "seamless" use of the trem possible. I never have to reach and grab anything.
Here's a pic of my Hipshot guitar. It shows the position of the lever, and also the width of the "palm/wrist" device that prevents usage on adjacent strings;
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Ryan Barwin
From:
Hamilton, Ontario, Canada
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Posted 4 Dec 2009 7:57 am
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With a bit of practice, you can bend the strings with your third and fourth fingers on your left hand by pulling the strings behind the bar. You can even bend two strings at once this way. The advantage is that it doesn't interfere with your right hand technique (blocking and picking) and doesn't significantly interfere with your left hand technique either.
_________________
www.pedalsteel.ca |
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John Billings
From:
Ohio, USA
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Posted 4 Dec 2009 8:13 am
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Ryan,
Yeah, pulling strings behind the bar is a fun technique! A nice way to get things like Augmented chords. Notice in my pic above, the angle of the lever lets me block effortlessly at the bridge. It's not in the way at all. If I want to pick closer to the neck, the lever just gets played more with my forearm than with my wrist. It takes no time to get used to the slight wrist rotation to operate the lever. |
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A. J. Martinez
From:
Ca.
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Posted 4 Dec 2009 9:32 am Ryan?
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| Ryan...do you use a lighter guage string on the ones you are bending behind the bar? A.J. |
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Martin Huch
From:
Hannover, Germany
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Roman Sonnleitner
From:
Vienna, Austria
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Posted 4 Dec 2009 11:00 am
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Wow, EXTREMELY cool stuff, never heard of these guys before...
That's exactly the kind of sound I'm going for with my Multibender-lap steel. |
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James Mayer
From:
back in Portland Oregon, USA (via Arkansas and London, UK)
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Posted 4 Dec 2009 12:40 pm
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| G Strout wrote: |
I would go with the Dusenberg. I wrote to Bigsby a few months back before I ordered the Dusenberg. I got a slow response about having just completed a move and it would be awhile before everything was up and running again. They sent some files that were hard to understand about the various models etc.
I went right to the Rockinger website and they sent the Multibender... no stories, no BS. fast shipping!! Popped right in.... works great!! I am ordering another after Christmas. Quality product. |
How much did that cost you, after shipping? Is there any reason why these aren't sold in the US? |
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James Mayer
From:
back in Portland Oregon, USA (via Arkansas and London, UK)
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Posted 4 Dec 2009 12:43 pm
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| Ryan Barwin wrote: |
| With a bit of practice, you can bend the strings with your third and fourth fingers on your left hand by pulling the strings behind the bar. You can even bend two strings at once this way. The advantage is that it doesn't interfere with your right hand technique (blocking and picking) and doesn't significantly interfere with your left hand technique either. |
I worked on this technique for a while, but found that it's impossible to get a full tone bend. Semitone are possible but become less so when you get closer to the nut. Also, a good vibrato isn't really possible with this technique. |
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G Strout
From:
Carabelle, Florida
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Posted 4 Dec 2009 4:19 pm
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| James Mayer wrote: |
| How much did that cost you, after shipping?Is there any reason why these aren't sold in the US? |
I searched and was unable to find a US based dealer that had the multibender. Every Dusenberg dealer I spoke to seemed to be unable to get one. Why no one has them here puzzles me. In any event my cost was USD$372.00. Including shipping. |
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Roman Sonnleitner
From:
Vienna, Austria
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Posted 5 Dec 2009 2:27 am
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| I think they were in short supply for a while because the owner of the workshop who made them for Duesenberg died, and they had to find another place to get it made; and with them bringing out that cool Duesenberg Pomona lap steel, which comes with a Multibender from the factory, meant it took a while the caught up again with demand - the Multibender was unavailable for a while over here, too, but I guess now they're on track again, so maybe they'll start selling it in the US, too? I guess it wouldn't hurt e-mailing the US distributor, to show that there's demand for it! |
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Ryan Barwin
From:
Hamilton, Ontario, Canada
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Posted 5 Dec 2009 6:40 am Re: Ryan?
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| A. J. Martinez wrote: |
| Ryan...do you use a lighter guage string on the ones you are bending behind the bar? A.J. |
No, I don't use a lighter gauge string. I even do this on dobro in open D tuning with a regular set of dobro strings. It's perfectly possible to bend the second string up a whole tone, and the third string up a semitone...these function like the A and B pedals on E9th pedal steel.
I usually use open E (EBEG#BE) or E7th (BDEG#BE) or E6th tuning (BC#EG#BE) when I use this technique.
_________________
www.pedalsteel.ca |
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Robert Murphy
From:
West Virginia
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John Billings
From:
Ohio, USA
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Posted 5 Dec 2009 7:18 am
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| They flipped the one upside down eh? Never thought of that! |
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A. J. Martinez
From:
Ca.
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Posted 5 Dec 2009 9:43 am Ryan reply
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| Thank you |
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