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Topic: A/B test - Push/pull/Hybrid |
Tore Blestrud
From:
Oslo, Norway
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Posted 22 Nov 2009 3:06 am |
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I did a little A/B test of my 78 Push/Pull (Black) and my Zum Hybrid.
Guitar - Hilton - MesaBoogie StudioPe - Lexicon MX200 - harddisk. Same settings on both guitars.
Hope it works. It's mp3 files, sound starts after some 10 sec.
http://drop.io/npmrpoj#
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Emmons D-10 P/P 78", Franklin D-10, Zum Encore. Sho-Bud LDG |
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Ray McCarthy
From:
New Hampshire, USA
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Posted 22 Nov 2009 3:46 am
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I seem to hear more of a sort of bell-tone quality in the PP. Could be my imagination--  What kind of pick-ups were used?
Derby SD-10 (#316), TrueTone, NV-112 Holy Grail Nano |
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Danny Bates
From:
Fresno, CA. USA
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Posted 22 Nov 2009 3:54 am
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Tore, Very nice! 
You have two excellent sounding guitars.
The push/pull seems to have more dynamic range and a slightly wider frequency response.
Please tell me which strings and pickups you're using. |
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David Wright
From:
Pilot Point ,Tx USA.
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Posted 22 Nov 2009 4:58 am
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Tore
Great job, the only thing wrong, you told us what guitar was was playing//,
for me they both sounded the same, but because our "eyes" see what were hearing, you will get all sorts of options on the PP sounds over the Zum... there so dam close, I couldn't tell them apart... |
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Ken Byng
From:
Southampton, England
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Posted 22 Nov 2009 5:15 am
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Both sounded good - the push pull just sounded distinctively better IMHO. A bigger tone.
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Show Pro D10 - amber (8+6), MSA D10 Legend XL Signature - redburst (9+6), Sho-Bud Pro 111 Custom (8+6), Emmons black Push-Pull D10 (8+5), Zum D10 (8x8), Hudson pedal resonator. Telonics TCA-500, Webb 614-E, |
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Tore Blestrud
From:
Oslo, Norway
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Posted 22 Nov 2009 6:05 am
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Stock single coil pickups on both, Jagwire strings.
I also hear a difference in sound, the Push/Pull has a bit more "growl, clarity and bite". The Hybrid sure is a tighter playing guitar, and maby sounds more "modern". In my ears the Hybrid sounds better than the regular all-pull guitars I have tried, but that is just a matter of personal taste.
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Emmons D-10 P/P 78", Franklin D-10, Zum Encore. Sho-Bud LDG |
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Johnny Thomasson
From:
Texas, USA
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Posted 22 Nov 2009 8:00 am
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I can tell a difference between the two. Both guitars sound excellent. To me, the pp has a more saturated sound, more definition. Make any sense? OK, more ballsy. But, both sound really good to me.
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Johnny Thomasson |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Johnny Thomasson
From:
Texas, USA
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Posted 22 Nov 2009 10:31 am
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| b0b wrote: |
| I only see one file: pushpull.mp3. Is there another one? |
Hmm. That's all I can see now. Earlier there were two.
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Johnny Thomasson |
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Bent Romnes
From:
London,Ontario, Canada
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Posted 22 Nov 2009 6:52 pm
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Both files are still there, showing on my PC, 9:50 est
By the way great tone on both guitars Tore.
The difference in sound is slight according to these cardboard ears. Connoisseurs might hear a difference but not the average joe that buys the records...
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BenRom Pedal Steel Guitars
https://www.facebook.com/groups/212050572323614/ |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 22 Nov 2009 7:16 pm
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I can see them now. I listened to them both. Sounds like two different steel guitars (duh!). To be honest, neither of these recordings have a tone I would use very often. Too much echo and high midrange twang. I could probably get a tone I like, though, by adjusting the controls differently. They both sound like very good pedal steels to me. Very rich and even in the harmonic content.
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-š¯•“š¯•†š¯•“- (admin) - Robert P. Lee - Recordings - Breathe - D6th - Video |
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Bryan Daste
From:
Portland, Oregon, USA
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Posted 23 Nov 2009 2:31 am
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| Both sound great, but the push pull sounds bigger and deeper. It's nice to hear them in this much detail, but how often is a steel guitar heard like this? It might be more useful to hear an A/B test of both steels playing the same part in a song, mixed in with the backing track. |
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Georg SĆørtun
From:
Mandal, Agder, Norway
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Posted 23 Nov 2009 4:47 am
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Listened to the cuts back to back a dozen or so times, through speakers and headphones.
Most significant to me is that the PP sounds like it has a slightly more present, tighter (more sub-resonant tone and less boom) and overall a more pleasant deep body-tone response compared with the Hybrid. Guess that's what some call "the PP growl", and the Hybrid is definitely less clear down there.
Too much echo, background-hiss and lack of dynamic resolution makes it hard to separate the instruments own tone from the electronic sound/distortion, and especially the hybrid is heavily distorted (squealing as it runs out of headroom) in some passages.
Both steels have a pretty even and overall good sound, but they sure sound different. Difficult to pinpoint and describe these differences in any details after listening to these cuts though. |
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Brint Hannay
From:
Maryland, USA
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Posted 23 Nov 2009 7:30 am
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I'd like to hear head-to-head comparisons like this edited together with each short phrase alternating: Phrase 1, guitar 1 followed immediately by phrase 1, guitar 2, etc.
If you have to remember what a given phrase sounded like on guitar 1 after two minutes of listening to other phrases and opening the other link, it becomes harder to be certain of the comparison. |
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Georg SĆørtun
From:
Mandal, Agder, Norway
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Posted 23 Nov 2009 8:01 am
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| Brint, I "post-edited" by having both cuts open and alternated play/pause for phrases. Otherwise - as you say - too much would have been lost. |
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Robert Cates
From:
Maine, USA
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Posted 23 Nov 2009 1:50 pm PP vs Hybrid
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An awful lot of people prefer the PP sound and this little sound test shows me the reason why.
My big cardboard ears could hear a difference and the Push Pull wins....hands down.
Bob |
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Robert Cates
From:
Maine, USA
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Posted 23 Nov 2009 1:50 pm
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Sorry
Do they make Push Pull computers
Last edited by Robert Cates on 23 Nov 2009 1:53 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Robert Cates
From:
Maine, USA
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Posted 23 Nov 2009 1:51 pm
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 23 Nov 2009 5:19 pm
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| The p/p simply sounds brighter and sharper, mostly on the high end, while the Zum sounds fuller and flatter (kinda like the strings on the p/p are newer). The tone could probably be changed to make the Zum much closer to the p/p sound, but few players know how to do this. |
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Johnny Thomasson
From:
Texas, USA
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Posted 23 Nov 2009 5:35 pm
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To be completely honest, I can't tell the difference in Buddy Emmon's playing when he plays his Zum or PP. To put that to the test would be random guesses on my part at best. And I'm not sure whether Buddy's Zum is a hybrid or not.
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Johnny Thomasson |
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Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 24 Nov 2009 7:54 am
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Johnny,
That last time I talked to Bruce, he told me that Buddy had settled on the Hybrid. |
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Brint Hannay
From:
Maryland, USA
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Posted 24 Nov 2009 10:03 am
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| Donny Hinson wrote: |
| The tone could probably be changed to make the Zum much closer to the p/p sound, but few players know how to do this. |
And possibly few amps know how to do this. The controls on the amps most people play through are very limited in their ability to do detailed shaping across the frequency spectrum. Differences in signal strength between closely adjacent frequencies may make the difference that a player's ear values, but be un-adjustable by a single knob that says "treble", or a mid-sweep control that can only boost or cut centered on one frequency. This would be the reason why any such subtle differences in EQ profile as may result from differences in the guitar might be significant to the player. |
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