Speaker suggestion needed for clean high powered tube amp

Marty Kerluk · From: Toronto, Ontario Canada

Hi folks,

I have an old Garnet amp (made in Canada) that puts out a lot of tube power (approx 120W).

My long term goal has always been to replace the wimpy guitar speakers I have currently installed in a 2 x 12 cabinet with some kind of modern equivilent to a JBL with the capability of handling 100W or so.

My goal is clean and loud tone out of this amp and not blowing up low powered speakers.

I'd like to see some ideas of what you people are thinking that I can use for speakers.

Many thanks and I always appreciate the comments from you great steelers.

Regards,

Marty

Brett Lanier · From: Madison, TN

I have an alnico weber california speaker coming to me in the mail that I'll be using w/ my 100watt fender tonemaster head. I'll let you know how it goes...

Mike Schwartzman · From: Maryland, USA

I have been running a 12" Weber Neo-Mag (I believe this speaker is rated 75 watts) in my Evans amp rated at 80 watts. I ordered the speaker with aluminum dustcap and cloth surround (a la JBL). It's been in there about a year now and sounding very nice according to my bandmates and even my wife.

Speaking of Garnet...Marty you reminded me that I've been meaning to try my Traynor with pedal steel. It's a YBA 3 Custom Special head. It's a 4 power tube head that is a sweet sounding bass amp, but I haven't checked it out on psg.
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Emmons Push Pull, BMI, Session 400, Home of the Slimcaster Tele.

Ken Fox · From: Nashville GA USA

I just sent a Jensen eo over to Jim Burruss in Alabama to try out. I have another one ordered as well as all the parts coming to build a high powered Twin Tweed era amp. This amp will be like the original Fender except using a 15" instaed of two 12" speakers. The whole amp should weigh in around 40-42 pounds. The 15" Jensen Neo only weighs 6.25lbs.

The Jensen neos are very light weight and will hopefully have the soft tone of the classic Jensen speakers, from all I have read so far! They are avaialable in 10-12-15" models.

Marc Jenkins · From: Victoria, British Columbia, Canada

Marty, which model of Garnet do you have? I have a Session Man 2x12" with a pair of Weber 12F150's in it, and they sound great. This amp is only 50-60 watts though...

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

If you're sticking with two twelves, I'd recommend Weber Ceramic speakers (for the best bang for the buck). Go with the California if you want a flat-response (like a JBL). But if you're using an open back cabinet and want more "punch" and bass response, then I'd go with the Michigan series.

As long as you're going to be playing clean, power handling won't be a big concern. Where power handling becomes really critical is when you're playing with loud distortion. Power levels can go way up, far exceeding the amp's normal rating.

Cool

Jim Strawser · From: Montana, USA

I second all of the Weber recommendations. I am using two 12" Webers (a Blue Dog and Silver Bell in a vintage Traynor TS-100 Solid State(replacing stock Marslands) for lap steel and it loves my Telecaster and Stratocaster as well. I also use a 12" Weber G12 as a replacement for a Celestion G12M-70(UK-4 ohm) that died of old age(Gonna have it reconed) and make a Tweed Deluxe from a Weber Kit. You cant go wrong with Weber products. They respond to email inquiries and technical questions as well...GO WEBER!!!!
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"Steel players are like fine wine, we get better with age"

Ed Phipps · From: Chino Valley, AZ

Hi Marty,

There are recent posts in a different thread that address similar situations of which speaker to use.

Especially interesting to me was the 2 posts by Tom Bradshaw about what he has found for the Webb line of amps and his "porting" of cabinet.

See here: http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=170755&sid=3554371c3af96174deaed3472b454e72

The other interesting post was what Donny from Baltimore said about "clean" watts. I don't know the specifics of your amplifier but for good clean power in a tube amp, the physical size of the output transformer is one of the two must have factors. The other being a negative feedback circuit as designed in the Williamson amplifier about 60 years ago.

A well designed and constructed output transformer is a "must have" for good low frequency response and your speaker and enclosure is the other big factor for great tone.

Have fun, all my best,

Ed

Marty Kerluk · From: Toronto, Ontario Canada

Thanks for all the replies. I'll look at two Weber speakers then as they seem to be the best around currently (from a lot of other instrument board discussions as well).
The amp I'm using is a Garnet BTO and its pretty clean nearly turned all the way up but I'm hoping that with efficient high powered speakers I can get a nice clean non saturated sound at relatively low-(ish) volume levels due to the headroom this amp offers.
The cabinet I want to load is a closed back Garnet design. As it was designed for Bass, I'm happy it will retain some 'darker' tone to temper the brightness the steel sometimes produces.

Thanks

Tim Whitlock · From: Colorado, USA

Hey Ken, I'll be curious to hear your opinion of the Jensen Neo 15. I tried one in my Twin hoping to get that great vintage Jensen sound. I was delighted when the speaker arrived and I could lift it out of the box easily with two fingers, but I soon found there was a high mid peak in the speaker that was unbearable and the bass was a bit flabby. If you look at the frequency response. It's off the chart at 2k, which seems to be the exact frequency of metal picks on strings and mine produced an extremely harsh sizzling sound. Most other speakers, including the Jensen Neo 12s are well under 110 db at that point. Anyway, back on topic, I think the Weber NeoMag 12 would be a good choice - they are a great sounding speaker - very close to JBL tones.

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Ken Fox · From: Nashville GA USA

Tim, do you recall if it was the 150 watt or 300 watt 15" speaker you tested?

Tim Whitlock · From: Colorado, USA

It was the 150 watter Ken. Sent you a PM with more detail.

Ken Fox · From: Nashville GA USA

Looks like the 300 watt version will do better, a much smoother response

David Doggett · Posted 19 Nov 2009 10:43 pm

I vote for the Webers - the neos are my first choice, but their other speakers are great also. 2x12 Webers (any of them) can easily handle 120 tube watts.

If you want to go to 1x15, then maybe a Peavey Black Widow or neo is the best choice. They are designed to sound like JBLs (and do), but handle more power - great speakers.

The word I hear on the new Jensens is that they bear no relationship at all to the old ones. I have never been a fan of the old Jensens. To me they seem like cut-rate speakers compared to JBLs, Peavey Black Widows, and Webers. But, it is possible that by serendipity some old Jensens sound good with certain vintage amps. Well, it seems like if you want to replicate that sound, you will have to find old Jensens. The new ones are made by an Italian company, and apparently have no design relationships to the old ones.

Ken Fox · From: Nashville GA USA

Dave, I respectfully disagree. I am using the Jensen 10" speakers in my 5D6B amps ands also have the Weber 10" in my Vibrolux clone. Victoria amps choose trhe same jensen for 59 Bassman amps as well.

To my ear the Jensen is the clear winner. I see and hear hundreds of amps every year in my shop with every kind of speaker you can imagine. Jensen speakers do not take a back seat to any of them!

My shop test speakers are a 15" Jensen P15N, a Peavey 1501-4SB and a JBL 15" (M131?). All 3 are great sounding speakers. The 15" Jensen is as warm as any older Jensen I have tested.

Brett Lanier · From: Madison, TN

Could someone explain to me what the wattage of a speaker means? Is it supposed to match the wattage of your amp to get a clean sound? i.e. Ken Fox wrote that the Jensen neo 15" comes in 150watts or 300watts, and the weber neo is only 75watts. So, can you really compare the two? Would the weber work for a session?

Tim Whitlock · From: Colorado, USA

In general your speaker should be rated at or above your amp's output in order to minimize distortion from your speaker. A single Weber Neo 15 is rated at 75 watts and it would never handle a Session's power. Not sure why Weber didn't kick it up just a notch - then it would be ideal for use in a Fender Twin.

Agree with Ken that I like the modern Jensen vintage line. I think they are very good sounding speakers (at least the alnico ones I have tried), although there is nothing to compare to a real 50's Jensen Blue Bell - sweet!. I never quite understood Ted Weber's bias against them, except that they are the competition. Yes they are made in Italy now, but I think they put out a great product - if maybe a just little pricey.

Larry Bressington · From: Nebraska

Black widow baby! Very Happy

Used to blow JBL'S for a pastime, [ BZZZZZ] DONE!
Ran ONE widow since 94 still going strong. Confused

Keep in mind, a valve amp may be rated at 100 watts, but the 'decibel' rating is huge compared to a solid state amp.

Your tone wont change that much from speaker to speaker, dont fall into the ''BRAND NAME' trap!
OH NO! Laughing

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A.K.A Chappy.

Ken Fox · From: Nashville GA USA

We have a winner with the SICA Premium Neo lites! Got one in today for the 100 watt tube amp I am building and it has the the tone for steel! We are using the 250 watt at 4 ohm for the tube amps and will be testing the 350 watt in a Nashville 400 this week as well.

6.7lbs for the 250 watt and a mere 8.85lbs for the 350 watt version.

I am an OEM for Jensen/SICA and will soon be stocking both in the shop. SICA is the company that owns Jensen.

Phil Turcotte · From: Ontario, Canada

Ken,

Based on what you've heard with the Sica speaker, do you think it would be a good fit for warm, mellow jazz guitar ? I realize this is a departure from Steel application but I'd appreciate your opinion.

Thanks....Phil

Ken Fox · From: Nashville GA USA

Yes, it would do very well. I have the 350 watt version in a Peavey 115E cabinet for testing as of yesterday. I will be testing it with a Nashville 400 with a 1501-4SB ASAP.
We took the new amp with the 250 watt version out for testing a t a local gig last night with a Zum steel, could not be more pleased with it!

Phil Turcotte · From: Ontario, Canada

Thanks Ken. It's always interesting to learn about new speakers that aren't considered tradional. I'd never heard of Sica until I read this thread today. I've since been on their website and reviewed some data sheets.

I see these are carried by CE Distribution and CE doesn't sell to the public. Could they be available through you ?

Ken Fox · From: Nashville GA USA

I am a CE Distribution customer and will carry these two speakers after the first of the year. They will be on my website at that time with a PayPal link for payment by PayPal or credit card through PayPal.

They are also carried by Antique Electronics, tubesandmore.com. They are the retail side of CED.

My agreement with CED is to sell them at the same price as Antique Electronics. Normally they do not want an OEM dealer to sell speakers.

They agreed that as I was in a limited market with steel players and therefore would allow me to sell these two models of speakers only on my website.

chas smith R.I.P. · From: Encino, CA, USA

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