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Topic: cabinet drop |
Thomas Butler
From:
Robbinsdale, MN
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Posted 9 Nov 2009 10:12 am |
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I've been reading through a lot of the tuning threads past and present and the term "cabinet drop" shows up a lot.
What is cabinet drop?
I understand it relates to tuning, but I'm not sure how.
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Bill Dobkins
From:
Rolla Missouri, USA
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Posted 9 Nov 2009 10:38 am
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Thomas, it relates to string stress. For example when pressing the A pedal it creates stress on the other strings( in particular the 6th) causing it to go a little flat.
I call it the fencing syndrome. If you have ever built a barbed wire fence. When you tighten one strand the other will loosen. The elimination of cabinet drop has improved a lot in the past years. It's only a problem if you let it be. We all have learned to live with it. Me I don't worry about it, my Rittenberry has very little. Usually you learn to compsensate for it with tuning.
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Ray Montee
From:
Portland, Oregon (deceased)
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Posted 9 Nov 2009 11:16 am I'd not worry about it!
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I've been playing for several years now, and until a few years ago, here on the Forum, I'd never heard of cabinet drop.
It NEVER BOTHERED ME........and I'm a stickler for being in tune. My '72 Emmons and my '56 Bigsby seem not to be truly afflicted by this annomaly (sp?).
Personally, I think it's a lot of 'something' about 'nothing'. IMHO....... |
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Clete Ritta
From:
San Antonio, Texas
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Posted 9 Nov 2009 1:17 pm
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Along with hysterisis, cabinet drop is a type of detuning which occurs when tension of the open strings is altered by pedals and levers. When pressing a floor pedal, some energy is applied to the cabinet as well as the mechanical pull. The downward force slightly changes the pitch of the instrument.
| C Dixon wrote: |
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1. The problem of strings NOT comming back true when raised and lowered.
2. The problem of strings being sharp when trying to split them.
3. The problem of strings lowering in pitch when OTHER strings are raised in pitch.
The first problem is called "hysterisis". ALL keyed guitar exhibit this problem, more or less.
The third problem is called "cabinet drop" and most all guitars exhibit this more or less.
The middle problem is not really a problem at all, rather it is because of the natural happening of music itself. IE, if you look at any fretted instrument you will note that EACH fret is closer to the next one working towards the bridge. This then results in the situation of splits being too sharp. ...carl
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Another type of detuning effect is heard on 6 string guitars with spring loaded tremelo bars. If one bends a string manually enough, all the other strings go flat to equalize the spring tension.
Clete |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 9 Nov 2009 3:10 pm
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| Quote: |
| The problem of strings lowering in pitch when OTHER strings are raised in pitch. |
Actually, you can also have unpedaled strings lower when you're lowering a string. (Cabinet drop doesn't just happen on the raises, and it doesn't just happen because of increased or lowered string tension.) When you press a pedal or lever, there's a lot of other stuff going on, too! |
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Jim Palenscar
From:
Oceanside, Calif, USA
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Posted 9 Nov 2009 6:37 pm
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| ..as well as occasionally having unlowered strings raise when a different string is lowered. |
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Alan Brookes
From:
Brummy living in Southern California
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Posted 9 Nov 2009 6:53 pm
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Every string instrument suffers from cabinet drop to a certain extent. If you think it's bad on a pedal steel you should try tuning a banjo. As you increase the tension on a string it pushes the bridge down into the vellum, which changes the tuning of all the other strings, so you have to keep tuning each of the strings over and over again. The same thing happens with a resonator guitar, where the bridge sinks into the cone. The pedal steel suffers more cabinet drop than the lap steel because you're continually changing the tension of the strings as you play. The pedal harp has the same problem.
If you really want to eliminate cabinet drop you need a tough chassis. Pianos used to suffer enormous cabinet drop, to the extent that the entire piano would sometime collapse in on itself, until, during the 1700s someone came up with the cast iron frame. Now all pianos have them.
There are plenty of pedal steels out there with heavy frames. Unfortunately, you can't have it both ways. If you want a light instrument that's easy to carry around you're more likely to experience cabinet drop.
| Jim Palenscar wrote: |
| ..as well as occasionally having unlowered strings raise when a different string is lowered. |
I had this problem recently with a Multi-Kord, and I raised it in another thread........
http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=170525&highlight=multikord |
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John Billings
From:
Ohio, USA
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Posted 10 Nov 2009 7:04 am
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Alan,
What's the drop like on your Crossover? |
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Georg Sørtun
From:
Mandal, Agder, Norway
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Posted 10 Nov 2009 7:34 am
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| Alan Brookes wrote: |
| Unfortunately, you can't have it both ways. If you want a light instrument that's easy to carry around you're more likely to experience cabinet drop. |
Sure you can have it both ways. Take a GFI apart and reconstruct it with a floating, rigid, bridge/changer carrying neck, and you'll still have a light instrument with no audible detuning. There's the "piano-frame" for you, and weight-gain won't be more than what's needed to make a GFI stand still while you're playing it - a kilo or so. |
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Alan Brookes
From:
Brummy living in Southern California
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Posted 10 Nov 2009 7:37 am
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| Georg Sørtun wrote: |
| Alan Brookes wrote: |
| Unfortunately, you can't have it both ways. If you want a light instrument that's easy to carry around you're more likely to experience cabinet drop. |
Sure you can have it both ways. Take a GFI apart and reconstruct it with a floating, rigid, bridge/changer carrying neck, and you'll still have a light instrument with no audible detuning. There's the "piano-frame" for you, and weight-gain won't be more than what's needed to make a GFI stand still while you're playing it - a kilo or so. |
I don't have a GFI, so I'll take your word for it.
| John Billings wrote: |
Alan,
What's the drop like on your Crossover? |
It's built like a tank with a very rigid frame. I've never perceived any cabinet drop whatsoever with it.  |
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Jim Palenscar
From:
Oceanside, Calif, USA
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Posted 10 Nov 2009 7:42 am
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| To a large majority of us- me included- it really is a rather moot point because, as has been said in the past- before the advent of electronic tuners it wasn't a topic of discussion and, in live situations- 99%+ of us and the audience could never hear it except for extreme cases and they just simply don't seem to exist in modern guitars. For sticklers in the recording industry the situation might be a titch different but it really is uncommon to have enough of it to cause a problem. |
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