What type of bar for a Lap Steel?

John Bushouse · Posted 29 Oct 2009 11:41 am

Gryphon Stainless Steel Slide (their name for it, not mine)
Here's another Gryphon exclusive! Suggested by Al Dodge (of R. Crumb's Cheap Suit Serenaders), it's a reenactment of the classic tapered Hawaiian guitar steel popular in the 1930s. This one is made of solid stainless steel, polished to a mirror shine, and it has exactly the same taper and dimensions as the original, with a round nose and a dimple on the wide end for easy thumb control as you do the "slant bar" maneuver.

I've also got an old bar (Elton? Manoloff? Other?) that has the same dimensions, except the Gryphon bar is 5.5 oz. and the old bar is closer to 3.5 oz.

Why tapered? I don't know. I thought it was cool; the smaller tip makes it seem like I'm "pointing my finger" at the string when I'm playing single string stuff; and I've been using it for long enough it just seems natural. The only downside is that it makes slants harder to visualize, since the side of the slant is on the midpoint of the bar, and the taper can be misleading visually.

Asa Brosius · Posted 29 Oct 2009 11:56 am

I use both styles, depending on the style of music. I've rarely heard a perfectly clean and crisp subtle buzz-free pull-off with a bullet bar, while they're par for the course with stevens-style. However, I find string skipping much more fluid, and vibrato more natural with a bullet. All this said, there are certainly those who have full command of the instrument with either bar.
Asa

Doug Beaumier · From: Northampton, MA

Alan Brookes · From: Brummy living in Southern California

I have about a dozen bars of various shapes and sizes, but lately I've found that, whether I'm playing Resonator, Weissenborn, Lap Steel or Pedal Steel, I just use a Tribotone, and the others stay in a box,

Bill Creller · From: Saginaw, Michigan, USA (deceased)

Seems like a big heavy 11 oz bar would be great if you're not in a hurry to move it Very Happy

( don't mind me, I'm just stirring things up) Very Happy

Asa Brosius · Posted 29 Oct 2009 6:04 pm

Doug,
Firstly, please understand that this not criticism, but relevant to the topic at hand. I found your excellent 'Valco Swing' to actually be a great illustration of 'pull-off' buzz issue with bullet bars mentioned above, specifically the end of the song. For pull-offs, bullets lack the subtle snap of a stevens-style/edged bar by virtue of their basic design.
Asa

Doug Beaumier · From: Northampton, MA

Thanks, Asa. I can't say that I hear any "buzz" doing pull-off with a round nose bar, although I will admit that pull-offs are more snappy with a flat nose bar. For me though there would be too many trade-offs using a flat nose bar. More would be lost than gained, for the style I like to play.
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Ray Montee · From: Portland, Oregon (deceased)

Doug.......how could you possibly ignore that distraction that has been described within this post?

I didn't hear it! And, you didn't pay much attention to it being there either. Hummmmm........

THANK Goodness someone pointed it out to us both.

Never ever used one of those wanna-be, funny looking bars.......and I've managed for 65+ years.

Well, you learn something everyday.

Doug Beaumier · From: Northampton, MA

Todd Weger · From: Safety Harbor, FLAUSA

Roger Palmer · From: Rossendale, UK

My first bar was a Shubb SP2 and I got quite good with it and had no problem with split slants. I now use a 920 as I like the size of it and the sound and sustain are a lot better than any other bars Ive tried.

I want a tribotone but I cant justify the expense at the moment.....one day though it will be mine!

Twayn Williams · From: Portland, OR

With a Shubb SP2 you can do split slants using the rounded nose end, and snappy pull-offs using the sharp back end. I have no more difficulty doing slants, forward and reverse, with an SP2 than I do with a bullet bar. Smile

The tone any bar produces will vary depending on its construction, so an SP2 will produce a different tone than a Tribotone or a JB Dunlop or a Brozophonic or Diamondnecks Crystal, etc.

I say always have an SP2 AND always have different types of bullet bar. Heck, I also have a Stevens bar, though I admit I never use it, preferring the SP2 instead.
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Asa Brosius · Posted 30 Oct 2009 11:17 am

Ray,
I'm not interested in this type of discussion, especially if its going to be loaded with sarcasm. Nor am I pursuing a 'bar war' in any way, especially with a player such as Doug, whose playing and music I enjoy. The effect I described above is admittedly subtle, and no big deal, but relevant to the topic.

Asa

Roman Sonnleitner · From: Vienna, Austria

Same here - I have a collection of bars - SP2, SP1, a Dunlop bullet bar (sorry, don't know the number), a brass bullet bar, a bullet bar made from Pyrex (which gives a slightly Dobro-ish sound, with very little sustain).
The Dunlop wins when it comes to pure sustain (because of its mass, it is the heaviest of the lot, I think it's actually a pedal steel bar), but for pure playing ease and handling, the SP2 can run rings around it (split & reverse slants are no problem at all).
But I guess bar choice is mainly a matter of personal style and preference, just try a couple of different ones to find out what works best for you! There's really no right or wrong here, just matters of taste - like with most things in music & art.

L. A. Wunder · From: Lombard, Illinois, USA

I use a flat-nosed Shubb on dobro. On my ten-string lapsteel, I use the same type of Dunlop "bullet" bar I use on PSG. In each case, the bar seems to do the trick.

John Bechtel · From: Nashville, Tennessee, R.I.P.

When it comes to the “Jerry Byrd” Model Dunlop Tone~Bar, at least one person stated it correctly farther back in this thread! The Model #918 may have been endorsed and approved of by JB, but; it was the #919 Model that he actually preferred and used! In Honolulu, in 1979, I personally handed my custom~made 3/4”x2 7/8” stainless bar to Jerry and even before he looked at it, he said to me: “It's just a little too long”! And that was only 1/8” greater than the #919 model that he used, but; he knew, just by holding it in his hand w/o any measuring! And he was playing his Double 8/7 Sho Bud that night!
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Marty Smith · From: California

I like a 3/4 x 2 7/8 , I have made all kinds and I recomend them for fast attack ,single,splits,slants,hammer ons.etc
I can make any size needed.

HERE
http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=148349

Erv Niehaus · From: Litchfield, MN, USA

I don't know if they still make them or not, but in my bar collection, I have a couple BJS lap steel bars.
Smaller scale than their pedal bars but the same excellent quality. Very Happy

Blake Wilson · From: Boulder CO, USA

I did not see much discussion of the John Pearse bars. I have been using their "Pedal Steel" bar on my laps and like it quite a bit. It's big, quiet, and heavy.

http://www.jpstrings.com/braccess.htm#TCBar

Blake

Twayn Williams · From: Portland, OR

Something that hasn't been addressed yet in this thread is ergonomics. I have a lap steel sized Dunlop bullet bar, and while I like the tone, I find that if I use it alot I start to get stress pains in the underside of my forearm. It'll get so bad I have to start wearing a wrist brace at work (computer programming.) However, the MUCH bigger around Diamondneck Crystal tone bar does not cause me any stress problems. The same thing with an SP2.

Just something to keep in mind when using a tone bar of any sort!
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Roman Sonnleitner · From: Vienna, Austria

Same here - the tone of that huge pedal steel bullet bar I have is great (esp. the extra-long sustain, due to the added mass) - but I prefer the handling of the SP2.
I guess preferences are larely shaped by what we're most familiar is (ie. which bar we used when we started learning to play), but also a lot by our particular playing style - for that rolling, smooth Hawaiian style, the heavy bullet bar may be perfect, but for very quick stuuff with lost of hammer-ons, as well as for bar-blocking, something with a grip (like the SP2) is quite useful!

Ray Shakeshaft · From: Kidderminster, Worcs, UK.

On the basis of what I have read on this thread I bought a Dunlop 919. I have used it for about an hour and I am amazed at the improvement in my playing. I am still rubbish but a slightly better class of rubbish now.

The main improvement came about because the lighter bar against my previous 920 has made single note playing so much easier.

Thanks SGF.

Kenn Geiger · From: Salem, Oregon, USA

Based upon all the discussions here, I ordered a Dunlop 918 from my local music store. (I like to support the local stores if I can) When it arrives, I am positive that it will not make me instantly into the type of player I want to be [they were all out of THAT model Oh Well

] BUT I suspect it will not get in the way either. Very Happy

That means all the mistakes are me, not the equipment Wink

Kenn

Doug Beaumier · From: Northampton, MA

Tom Wolverton · From: Carpinteria, CA

I'm one of those weirdos that likes the SP-2 (Peter Grant) bar for my 8-string Stringmaster and uses a Scheerhorn bar for 6-string lap steel, Weiss. and dobro. I wish the SP-2 was just a tad (1/8")shorter, however. But it works. Everybody's hands are different, and our playing styles are different, too, so what might work for me, might be totally wrong for you. Ain't diversity fun?
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