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Topic: Windows 7 installation with Retail Upgrade disc |
Mitch Drumm
From:
Frostbite Falls, hard by Veronica Lake
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Posted 23 Oct 2009 1:04 am |
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Windows 7 was formally released to the world yesterday and it can now be bought or downloaded from thousands of locations.
The Internet has been full of rumors in the last couple of months regarding the precise details of the retail package--was a valid Windows operating system needed on the target disc? Did it have to be validated? What if I wanted to install to a second hard disc in a system with Windows on another disc? Could I install on a one disc system in which the disc had never held a Microsoft OS? Could I just enter my key for an earlier version or did I need supply the disc itself?? Can I do a "clean install" or just an "upgrade"? How would I be limited if my hard drive failed? Etc, etc.
Contradictory rumors were flying and MS did nothing to provide advance notice.
The early reports are now in and seem to say that MS has been generous.
Here are some basic scenarios that should cover nearly everyone. This appears to apply to both the Retail upgrades that you can find at Best Buy, etc, or to the pre-orders that you may have made several months ago through Newegg, Amazon, etc.
1: You can do an upgrade or clean install to the same partition on which you currently have Windows.
2: You can do a clean install to any partition on any hard drive in your PC, just as if you had purchased a "full" version of Windows 7, rather than an upgrade version.
3: If you have a single disc system with a new blank drive or a drive that has never had an OS on it, you can still do a clean install through the "double install" method which was available in Vista. Microsoft has known about this method for years and has left it available for the new Windows 7. The "double install" means that during the first install you DON"T enter the 25 digit product key. Just bypass it and complete the installation. Don't bother to activate. If you stopped at this point, Windows 7 would only run for 30 days. Instead, start the installation process again, this time starting from the new Windows 7 desktop. This time, enter the product key. Complete the installation and activate in the next 30 days.
The "double install" represents the time you have to expend (less than a half hour) in order to NOT have to purchase a "full" version rather than an "upgrade".
4: Similarly to method 3, if you have a dual disc system with Windows installed on some partition on Disc A, you can do an upgrade install to the C partition on Disc A, a clean install to partition C on Disc A, a clean install to some other partition on Disc A, or a clean install to the partition of your choice on Disc B---which may never have had any OS or data on it at all.
That's as I understand things right now.
As always, take responsibility for your decisions and do your own due diligence.
The Internet computer forums are alive with the topic.
For instance:
http://tinyurl.com/ygbxc2e
I am expecting my Newegg delivery later today and will probably install over the weekend.
I have deliberately avoided discussion of XP, Vista, OEM, recovery partitions, or the various versions of Windows 7. I just wanted to provide info on the Retail Upgrades many of you may be getting today or shortly. |
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Jack Stoner
From:
Kansas City, MO
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Posted 25 Oct 2009 2:50 am
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I got my Home Premium upgrade from newegg on Friday. I upgraded my Acer laptop yesterday. The install program will do a scan of your PC for any compatibility issues. My laptop had Vista Home Premium on it (from factory new) and the compatibility scan found two issues, (1) The Acer enet management application was not compatible and as I have an iPod and the iTunes program installed I had to "deauthorize" the iTunes before it would allow upgrading to Win 7. And, I had to fix the two compatibility issues, restart the PC and then start the Win 7 upgrade over again - it wouldn't let me fixt the issues and continue from that point.
The Win 7 upgrade (from Vista to Win 7) is different from previous versions as it is run from Vista rather than booting with the Win 7 upgrade disc.
Other than the two issues everything went well and the rest was "automatic" including copying over everything. e.g. I have MS Office 2003 and use Outlook 2003 for e-mail and it was OK. It took about two hours for the upgrade.
I have Win 7 Professional coming from Amazon (they are not as timely as newegg in delivering Win 7 and they shipped USPS not UPS like newegg) and I'll install that on my Desktop (64 bit). I only ordered the Pro version primarily because I do some PC support.
My Desktop has an Intel Q6600 quad CPU and it has the Intel Virtualization Technology that is required to run the "XP mode" that is available in the Pro (and higher) version. |
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Mitch Drumm
From:
Frostbite Falls, hard by Veronica Lake
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Posted 25 Oct 2009 4:36 am
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Jack:
I installed with the the Retail Upgrade disc Friday morning and it was the easiest change of OS I have ever done.
I did a clean install to a drive that had never had an operating system on it. Booted from the DVD install disc. The DVD was only in the drive for 30 minutes, so it went quickly.
Didn't have to supply a driver or anything and really didn't have to interact with the install at all once I chose the target partition. There were 2 or 3 reboots. MS has really tidied up the install process.
Didn't have to make a single keystroke or mouse move to regain a net connection.
Didn't have to do the "double install" thing either. I entered my Product Key when it was first requested and was able to activate immediately as soon as the install finished.
I avoided that special 100 or 200 mb partition that the install often puts at the beginning of the drive by running Diskpart early in the process.
Ended up with one bang in device manager--for PCI Simple Communications Controller. Can't fix it yet and it doesn't seem to have any consequences. I seem to remember running into that years ago on another install, and MS eventually had a patch for it. |
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Jack Stoner
From:
Kansas City, MO
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Posted 25 Oct 2009 5:58 am
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Mitch, If the "upgrade" version will allow the clean install, I plan on doing a new install when I get the Pro version. I installed a new 1TB hard drive and I plan on installing it on that. I don't have much installed on my Vista 64 bit system so I'm not really losing much by doing the "clean" install rather than an upgrade.
I've seen that PCI Simple Communications Controller error before on the Dell forum. I seem to recall installing (or reinstalling) the chipset drivers fixed one of the problems. |
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Storm Rosson
From:
Silver City, NM. USA
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Posted 25 Oct 2009 9:51 am
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 all 3 upgrades I got from MS technet pre-order will install cold even on a raw hdd.The keys for x64 and x86 will interchange except only for the same ver ...ie. Basic, Home P, Pro, Ultimate , etc.As far as I've been informed u can install 1 copy on 2 pc's  at least that's what the inside is saying but MS often changes protocol in midstream as we all know  |
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Sonny Jenkins
From:
Texas Masonic Retirement Center,,,Arlington Tx
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Posted 25 Oct 2009 10:21 am
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| It looks like they are NOT recommending upgrade from XP,,,just Vista??? |
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Mitch Drumm
From:
Frostbite Falls, hard by Veronica Lake
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Posted 25 Oct 2009 11:14 am
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Sonny:
Microsoft would like you to upgrade from either Vista or XP.
But, the XP situation is slightly different than Vista.
If you want to move from XP to Windows 7, you MUST do a "clean install", which means you will have to reinstall all of your programs.
If you want to move from Vista to Windows 7, you can do a clean install OR you can do an "upgrade". If you choose upgrade, you can probably avoid having to reinstall your programs--but there is some chance of having more issues sooner or later than if you did a clean install. The standard recommendation is to do a clean install whenever possible. |
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Storm Rosson
From:
Silver City, NM. USA
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Posted 25 Oct 2009 1:51 pm
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| What Mitch said |
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Jack Stoner
From:
Kansas City, MO
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Posted 25 Oct 2009 3:23 pm
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A big issue you need to be concerned with in upgrading an XP PC. Are there at a minimum Vista drivers available for the Hardware? The XP drivers are not compatible and won't work. If you have a "name" brand PC such as a Dell there can be Vendor proprietary hardware and if the PC vendor does not have drivers you can't really upgrade the XP PC.
There's even an issue for those with some models of the SoundBlaster Xfi series of sound cards. The Creative (SoundBlaster) support site has a notice about which models have or will have Windows 7 drivers and those that are not listed for Windows 7 drivers will not bee supported. One of those that are not going to be supported, according to the Creative list, is the Xfi Extreme Music. And, we are seeing several posts on the Dell users forum of users upgrading to Windows 7 from Vista and the Vista SoundBlaster Xfi drivers will not work on Win 7. This was a major shock since Win 7 is basically Vista "improved". |
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Storm Rosson
From:
Silver City, NM. USA
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Posted 25 Oct 2009 7:36 pm
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| not always so , as the XP x64 drivers for my 4 year old creative webcam work fine in Win7. I have yet to find after around 6 or so Win7 installs any common hw ,ie:modems,network adapters, vid cards, etc that Win7 can't set up even without the WHQL drivers. They made some changes to the HAL layer so many devices will set up and be at least functional with win7 non-kernel mode drivers |
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Chip Fossa
From:
Monson, MA, USA (deceased)
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Posted 27 Oct 2009 12:12 pm
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I just got my Win7 upgrade in today's mail from Amazon. Said they would ship it by Oct.26, and it came today, Oct.27.
I've been scouting around 'tinyurl.com' and focused in on their tutorial: Win7 Clean Install with Upgrade Win7 version.
Step 1 says: Boot the PC from your Win7 installation DVD. Then there is a "NOTE": and it says, "make sure that the CD/DVD drive is selected first in the boot order in the BIOS."
When I checked Advanced Bios Features in my BIOS, the first 3 items listed in this order were: CPU Feature; Hard Disk Boot Priority; CD-Rom Boot Priority.
When I hit 'press enter' for the CD-Rom option it said this: 1.Ch3 M. : Optiarc DVD RW AD - 7170.
I don't quite understand what the Step 1 "NOTE" means.
Please help.
Thanks
_________________
Chip
Williams U-12 8X5; Keyless; Natural Blonde Laquer. |
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Storm Rosson
From:
Silver City, NM. USA
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Posted 27 Oct 2009 3:03 pm
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| keep looking ,as u scroll a little farther u will find the boot order just set the first boot device to cd/dvd and the second device should be set to hdd ...hit F10 then hit enter |
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Jack Stoner
From:
Kansas City, MO
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Posted 28 Oct 2009 2:40 am
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I got my homebuilt PC (an Intel M/B and a Q6600) "upgraded" to Win 7 yesterday (I'm using it now to post). I had to do a "clane" install as I went from Vista Home Premium 64 bit to Windows 7 Professional 64 bit, it wouldn't let me upgrade because of different versions.
It wasn't really an issue as I had a new 1TB hard drive prepared for the new install. The new hard drive with lots of space is because I will be using this PC for Recording with Sonar 8.5 and music files can get quite large.
The only thing I need to fix is the "PCI Simple Communications Controller" error in the Device Manager. This is a fairly common problem, googling for the error.
Although a "clean install" has always been the best choice, for most "consumers" if they already have Vista and upgrading to the same version Win 7 (e.g. Home Premium) the least painless way is to just do an upgrade. They have made great strides in upgrading over previous versions. |
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Mitch Drumm
From:
Frostbite Falls, hard by Veronica Lake
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Posted 28 Oct 2009 6:48 am
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Jack:
Please check your private mail.
Thanks. |
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Jack Stoner
From:
Kansas City, MO
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Posted 28 Oct 2009 9:08 am
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| Mitch, no PM's. ? |
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Chip Fossa
From:
Monson, MA, USA (deceased)
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Posted 28 Oct 2009 9:33 am
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I found the boot order list.
The 1st boot drive had HDD checked off, and not CD-Rom.
I'm thinking now, maybe I oughta just do an upgrade install, instead of a clean install.
Will Win7 put back the Realtek drivers I'm missing and can't seem to install from Realtek's website? On an UPGRADE install?
Thanks Storm and Jack.
_________________
Chip
Williams U-12 8X5; Keyless; Natural Blonde Laquer. |
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Mitch Drumm
From:
Frostbite Falls, hard by Veronica Lake
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Posted 28 Oct 2009 9:41 am
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Jack:
Just sent you a second private email. |
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Storm Rosson
From:
Silver City, NM. USA
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Posted 28 Oct 2009 1:34 pm
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| np Chip, no it won't install missing drivers during an upgrade, but I really recommend u do a clean install ......you won't regret it. Everything should setup just fine....except that pesky chipset/smbus driver Jack needs lol ....... ps :@ Jack I'm an AMD guy myself |
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Jack Stoner
From:
Kansas City, MO
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Posted 28 Oct 2009 1:39 pm
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The software I apparently need to fix the PCI Simple Communications device error is the Intel AMT (Active Management Technology) software. Intel does not have a Win 7 application for my Intel DP35DP motherboard. I installed the chipset drivers right after the OS install, so it's not that.
I thought it had something to do with my activating the "VT" option in the BIOS but it wasn't that. |
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Storm Rosson
From:
Silver City, NM. USA
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Posted 28 Oct 2009 5:03 pm
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| Jack I had a thought, prolly ain't nuthin, but do you have a bios switch for busmastering? or you mite check and see if your ata controller is in AHCI or IDE(compatability mode) if in AHCI you mite try regular mode ....just a thought, Stormy |
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Jack Stoner
From:
Kansas City, MO
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Posted 29 Oct 2009 2:05 am
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It's set up as it was with Vista 64 bit. Nothing has changed. I've seen other posts (on other forums) about the same thing. It can be various hardware depending on the hardware ID's. Mine is Ven ID 8086 Dev 29C.
I have an idea it has something to do with the monitoring of the CPU/Board temperatures as the Intel monitoring program will not run as it can't find the management program, which also goes along with what I found about the Intel AMT (Active Management Technology). I have an Intel DP35DP motherboard (and Intel Q6600 CPU). I've installed the Intel chipset drivers, ethernet drivers, etc that Intel has for this board that will work with Win 7 (and/or Vista). |
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Mitch Drumm
From:
Frostbite Falls, hard by Veronica Lake
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Posted 29 Oct 2009 4:37 am
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Jack:
If you are talking about that bang for the Simple Communications Controller, I think I read that it is related to the Intel Management Engine Interface, which is included with an installation of the Intel Desktop Utilities application. But I can't find that thing yet either.
My controller has nearly the same hardware ID as yours:
PCI\VEN_8086&DEV_29A4
If you come up with a fix for this, please post it. I haven't yet noticed any issues because of it. |
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Jack Stoner
From:
Kansas City, MO
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Posted 29 Oct 2009 5:30 am
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| The available Intel Desktop Utilities program is not Win 7 compatible and will not install. However, I'm going to try installing it in a compatibility mode and see if it will install. |
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Chip Fossa
From:
Monson, MA, USA (deceased)
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Posted 30 Oct 2009 5:11 am
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OK,
I'm gonna go with a clean install.
Should I remove the AudigySE soundcard before doing the install?
My thinking is, maybe if it's eliminated, Realtek may come back.
_________________
Chip
Williams U-12 8X5; Keyless; Natural Blonde Laquer. |
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Jack Stoner
From:
Kansas City, MO
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Posted 30 Oct 2009 12:33 pm
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The Integrated Audio (Realtek) will come back if it's enabled in the BIOS and you want to use that rather than the SoundBlaster. I assume it's disabled now so it won't interfere with the SoundBlaster.
Keep in mind with the "clean" install, you will need Win 7 or at least Vista device drivers for all your hardware (that includes the Realtek sound and your peripherals (e.g.printer)). Also, you will need to physically disconnect any peripheral and you will have to do a complete new install and ONLY connect the unit to the PC when the install program tells you.
If your motherboard has chipset drivers they MUST be installed BEFORE installing some device drivers including the sound. On boards with chipset drivers (and that's most boards) one of the prime things the chipset drivers do is define (identify) the devices on or attached to the motherboard. On boards that have chipset drivers, the correct install sequence is (1) Install Windows (2) Install Chipset Drivers (3) Install Device Drivers such as Sound, Video, Ethernet, etc. |
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