Pedal Tuning Question

Thomas Bohlen · From: New York, NY

I've been reading that some folks don't need to tune their pedals every time they play. I find that interesting that I do have to do that, especailly for gigs because even though the pedals are usually close to in tune they are not quite acurate. I have a D-10 Carter, only a few years old. Is it normal to tune the pedals every time you play a gig? or is there something I may need to setup on my guitar.

Zach Keele · From: Murfreesboro, Tennessee, USA

I've not been playing forever, but I have a great instrument, and I at least check mine every time i play, and usually have to do some minor adjustments. I figure if I'm going to spend a lot of time practicing and learning, I might as well take a minute or two and make sure I'm in tune.

I doubt there is anything wrong with your guitar. You may just be picky like me, or you may have some unusual temperature or humidity changes. Sitting in front of a vent or window could do it.

b0b · From: Cloverdale, CA, USA

I touch mine up on my Williams when I change strings. Very rarely something will slip, but for the most part they stay put.
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Thomas Bohlen · From: New York, NY

Thanks for the replys. Is there a reason why your steel pedals stay in tune? Maybe the instrument? I never find mine to off too far but enough to make my ears sensitive.

b0b · From: Cloverdale, CA, USA

The tuning nuts on the Williams are really tight. That might be a factor.

Also, my temperament is "fault tolerant" - it's not real strict JI. I've found that with JI, if the A pedal goes just a little bit flat it sounds really bad to me. So I tune it (and all the other thirds) sharp of that perfect JI point. I might not even notice if the pedals are a wee bit out. My tuning isn't all that critical.
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Lee Baucum · From: McAllen, Texas (Extreme South) The Final Frontier

I rarely have to touch the pedal and knee-lever tuners. When I transport the guitar to practice or a job, I just have to tune the open strings.

When the pedals and knee-levers need constant adjustment, that's usually my cue it's time to change strings.
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Larry Bell · From: Englewood, Florida

My experience is the same as Lee and others. The only time my open tuning is far off is when there is a large difference between temperature for my last gig and the current one (like, for example, an outside gig on Fri and inside on Sat). If warmer, flat; if cooler, sharp. If you really have to adjust several of your pedal and lever stops most every time you play, you may have a mechanical issue. A loose bellcrank, worn out nylon tuning nut, and several other factors can contribute to this problem.

Is this problem localized on one pedal or lever?

With new strings you will find stretching and moving from place to place you will find temperature differences, both of which can cause the open tuning and sometimes even the pedal stop to need adjustment, but a well adjusted guitar rarely needs a complete tuning. You may need to contact John Fabian and talk it over with an expert on your brand of guitar.
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Bill Terry · From: Bastrop, TX

I've got two Carter D-10s, neither has to be touched out of the case 99% of the time, unless as others have mentioned there is big temperature delta, i.e. out of the car in summer into cold A/C or similar. Even then it's just open strings. The only time I ever touch the adjusters is when changing strings, and that's only once in a while.

I've spoken with a lot of other Carter owners, and this seems to be the case with most. I'd talk to the Carter folks.. I don't think that's normal.
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Jim Lindsey (Louisiana) · From: Greenwell Springs, Louisiana (deceased)

I probably need to be shot by a firing squad for admitting this, but when I finally sat down at my Mullen after laying off of steel for 9 years, I went ahead and played on those old strings instead of changing them first.

One would think that strings old as that would be horrible (and they were quite "dead"), but I was amazed that after tuning open, the pedals and knee levers did not have to be touched! They were still in tune.

Most often, unless some other factor comes into play, I only have to adjust the tuning on my pedals and knee levers when I change strings and, even then, they are only very minor adjustments in tuning. Nothing major or drastic. Smile

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Nic du Toit · From: Milnerton, Cape, South Africa

Thomas,
I reckon one more question needs to be asked....When last did you lube the total pedal mechanism, including the changer and roller nut? Just a thought Smile

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J D Sauser · From: Wellington, Florida

If the guitar is of good quality and condition, having to touch up the pulls may have several reasons. Here are some which come to mind.

- Over aged strings.
- Excessive temperature and moisture changes.
- Inconsistent tuning procedure.
- Capricious hearing.
- and last but not least OVER-tuning.

Over tuning is a typical cause for tuning issues with newer players or those who lack some basic understanding of the mechanical aspects of their guitar or have not done some maintenance over many years.

In case this could be the case:

Your hex nylon tuners you FINE tune your pulls with at the right end plate cut out, should NEVER be tuned snug against the changer scissors. If you release a pedal or lever, you should be able to push to release it a little further so that the nylon hex tuners move AWAY from the scissors at least 1/32". You can also try to pull each nylon hex tuner and pull it to see if there is a little slack possible.
If there is none, the scissor finger do not rest solidly on the base plate in the un-pedaled "open" position, jeopardizing your open tuning. Pulls of an uneven open tuning will never be 100% evenly replicable either. The more you "tune" the worse it gets.
Should that be the case, release your nylon hex tuners enough turns so to create that slack and then add more pedal or level travel at the pedal or lever stops under the guitar.

... J-D.

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

In addition to J.D.'s excellent list, problems can also arise if it's an older guitar with substantial wear. Slop in the action can possible cause ( and undesired) lateral movement of parts instead of strictly linear movement. With a modern guitar, pedal adjustments should be quite stable, especially when the guitar is not moved or packed/unpacked for traveling. I've even had gigs where nothing required tuning after the guitar was set up and played for a few minutes. (Never tune a guitar right out of the case, or until it's been played for a few minutes!)

In addition, if you're doing a lot of traveling, cases that don't properly fit and support the guitar have been known to cause a problem.

Bo Borland · From: South Jersey -

Capricious hearing... I like that JD.
Another thing also occurs as you play.. the strings wear, they stretch, begin to lose tone and they get thin spots. They go dead. That's why we change them.
In between the time when they are new and get replaced they will need tuning and the nylons will need touching up too. It's normal.
I know some folks brag that they never break an string and have never had to change a string on their 2-3 year old steel... would that be capricious hearing?
oh, and the steel plays out of tune, they just can't hear it.

J D Sauser · From: Wellington, Florida

Don Brown, Sr. · From: New Jersey

Thomas,

Do you have to keep chasing the tuning (at the nylons or key heads) during a gig?

If so, you've got a problem you shouldn't have. Most often caused by either improper setup, or a lack of maintenance during it's earlier lifetime. All things otherwise, being ok.

Lube will do wonders IF not caught too late. Especially in the Changer Assembly, (Axle and Fingers).

A good way to check for that, (on a Carter) is to remove your strings, and return springs. Then from the top, with it right side up. Using your fingers of one hand, take each Finger, and make sure it works freely, while holding "your" finger at the end of the axle shaft and housing. If you feel the axle turning with any of the fingers, Then hold the axle, at each end, as to get a better grip on it. If the finger won't move without the axle turning, it's a good sign to pull the changer, but sadly it's usually too late to save it, unless you're real lucky.

That's caused from a lack of regular lubrication during it's lifetime.

Edited, to reflect the importance of not simply going to the return springs for the Cause of the problem, before every possible mentioned avenue above, "that others have already mentioned" has been Thoroughly checked and ruled out of the equation.

Locate the cause of the problem that produced the need for a tighter return spring, as opposed to simply dealing with the effect the problem caused, in needing more spring tension to work correctly.

If in doubt, simply switch the springs around. They can't possibly all go bad at once. Wink

Carter (to my knowledge) doesn't choose to use adjustable return springs, and it's for a real good logical and sensible reason, that I won't go into. I'll say this. It's simply one less area to have to worry about.

A well made spring seldom looses it's normal intended tension. There are many, pedal steels, not playing as well as they should, from both, over and under tensioned return springs.

Hope that helps,
Don

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