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Topic: Noise from Pedal A when Engaging Pedal C |
Ron Mishler
From:
Michigan, USA
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Posted 12 Oct 2009 9:03 am |
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Does anyone have noise from pedal A when engaging pedal C and is this a common thing or is it just this Guitar?
Ron Mishler
Carter D-10 |
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John De Maille
From:
On a Mountain in Upstate Halcottsville, N.Y.
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Posted 12 Oct 2009 11:34 am
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| Since pedal A and pedal C, both pull the 5th string "B" to a "C#", something underneath must be touching or binding. Look underneath and depress both pedals, individually, to see what's happening. Also check the changer finger for a bind. |
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Bent Romnes
From:
London,Ontario, Canada
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Posted 12 Oct 2009 11:37 am
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Ron, really it could be several things.
Turn the guitar upside down on something soft (like your sofa) and work the pedals slowly while you follow along the linkage all the way from the ball joint to the changer. Use your eyes and ears. Make sure there is no outside noise ..like the TV
If you find something suspicious write us back and we'll get'er done 
_________________
BenRom Pedal Steel Guitars
https://www.facebook.com/groups/212050572323614/ |
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Bent Romnes
From:
London,Ontario, Canada
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Posted 12 Oct 2009 11:39 am
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Ron, I would like to add this: If you can pinpoint the problem, do the same thing with the guitar standing in working position and you lying on the floor underneath it while someone works the pedals for you. You might want a flashlight...
_________________
BenRom Pedal Steel Guitars
https://www.facebook.com/groups/212050572323614/ |
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Don Brown, Sr.
From:
New Jersey
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Posted 12 Oct 2009 1:10 pm
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Ron,
You might also want to check the finger pull area real close. At times, the angle of a pull rod, can cause itself to hang up in the finger pull hole (that's not being used) while the same finger is being used by a second pull. Simply placing a small speck of oil on the offending pull rod (at the pull hole) will eliminate that.
Or! You can also "ever so slightly" bend the pull, so it's pulling straight, which also allows it to float free.
Note: Make sure all of your pulls are inline and straight.
Along with what others have already said, should have you fixed up in no time.
Edited to better clarify. I don't always write my meanings out too well.
Hope that helps somewhat......... Don
Last edited by Don Brown, Sr. on 12 Oct 2009 2:26 pm; edited 3 times in total |
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Bill Miller
From:
Gaspe, Quebec, Canada
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Posted 12 Oct 2009 1:47 pm
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| Hi Ron. I had exactly the same problem with my Carter. When engaging the 'C' pedal the 'A' pedal would bounce and make a clattering noise. I tried all of the recommended fixes and nothing worked until I moved the pullrod one notch further out from the cross-shaft on the bell crank, That cured it. It will make your 'A' just slightly stiffer to engage but I didn't find it a problem. |
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Ron Mishler
From:
Michigan, USA
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Posted 12 Oct 2009 3:11 pm
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| When I put my guitar in the case it doesn't make any noise but, as soon as I set it up it does! I followed the rod all the way to the changer and there's no binding or bending what next? |
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Don Brown, Sr.
From:
New Jersey
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Posted 12 Oct 2009 3:28 pm
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Ron,
Checking back I seen where you had said you just performed your First Split setup. Actually, it was much more than simply a first split setup. As in, changing around knee levers, as well.
That could possibly be where the problems started.
Make sure the fingers are all back against their stop, at the endplate, with the pedals up no knees activated.
I'd back off all the nylons, and give the setup a fresh start. It's possible to have all kinds of things happening, without knowing what steps you followed, in setting it up.
It now sounds to me like quite possibly, an error in proper setup is more in order, for the problem you're having......
Last edited by Don Brown, Sr. on 12 Oct 2009 3:53 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Ron Mishler
From:
Michigan, USA
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Posted 12 Oct 2009 3:50 pm
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I did but changed it back to just g# down to f#. I like the suspension resolution better. All my pedals and knee levers are in tune , it's just that noise that bothers me! I thought if I shortened the travel on the C pedal e-f# it might not affect or move the A pedal but starting to fix things myself after owning a push-pull that cured me of turning things. It's gig worthy it's just that noise!
Thanks for your input Ron |
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Ron Mishler
From:
Michigan, USA
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Posted 12 Oct 2009 3:59 pm
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If I decide to back off just the raise on the A pedal to give it a little slack at the pull pin (it's tight now)the C pedal rod is right underneath the A pedal rod all the way to the changer. So, I'm thinking with a little slack it won't be affected. Dpoes that sound right because I don't understand moving the A pedal rod out further on the bell crank.
Ron |
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Ron Mishler
From:
Michigan, USA
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Posted 12 Oct 2009 4:04 pm
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If I decide to back off just the raise on the A pedal to give it a little slack at the pull pin (it's tight now)the C pedal rod is right underneath the A pedal rod all the way to the changer. So, I'm thinking with a little slack it won't be affected. Does that sound right because I don't understand moving the A pedal rod out further on the bell crank.
Ron |
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Ron Mishler
From:
Michigan, USA
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Posted 12 Oct 2009 4:14 pm
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If I decide to back off just the raise on the A pedal to give it a little slack at the pull pin (it's tight now)the C pedal rod is right underneath the A pedal rod all the way to the changer. So, I'm thinking with a little slack it won't be affected. Does that sound right because I don't understand moving the A pedal rod out further on the bell crank.
Ron |
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Don Brown, Sr.
From:
New Jersey
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Posted 12 Oct 2009 4:15 pm
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Make certain, that ALL finger pulls have some slack in them..
Re-read my above post. With it in playing mode, right side up.
Watch very closely what is happening at the Changer, with the Rod Going to your "A" pedal, as you activate the "C" pedal. You'll better see what I'm suggesting is your problem.
Your "A" pull, (pull rod) for whatever reason, is what should be causing that problem.
The "A" Pull rod starts to hang, in it's pull hole, and then suddenly is able to release itself, and that is what causes the clank, when the pedal goes back into its rest position.
Watch at the nylons, and have someone else push the C pedal, and see if you see the A pull start going with it. Investigate and find out what's causing the problem. |
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Don Brown, Sr.
From:
New Jersey
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Posted 12 Oct 2009 4:27 pm
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Yes! All pulls MUST have some slack in them to operate correctly.
When Bill said about moving his one pull away from the Cross Shaft a notch, he was saying he moved it farther away from the cross shaft, (in the pull bar) by one notch, since he also said it caused a little stiffer pedal, but worked. Had he moved it down (closer to the cross shaft) it would have caused a lighter pedal feel.
But yes! You're now on the correct path!
Last edited by Don Brown, Sr. on 13 Oct 2009 10:19 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Danny Hullihen
From:
Harrison, Michigan
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Posted 12 Oct 2009 11:38 pm
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| Ron, if you can't get it figured out, bring it over here and I'll fix it for you. |
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Bill Miller
From:
Gaspe, Quebec, Canada
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Posted 13 Oct 2009 3:14 am
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All I know is that I spent several days trying to cure the same problem by going through all of the usual methods recommended by the vendor. The only thing that worked in my case was moving the pull pin on the A' pedal pull rod from the innermost bellcrank notch to the second one out from the cross shaft. The difference in the stiffness of the 'A' pedal is negligible.
The problem wasn't misalignment. The 'A' pullrod and the 'C' pull rod were too close together and would rub together while the 'C' pedal was being engaged...which in turn would make the 'A' pedal bounce and clatter. Bending the 'A' pedal rod did not cure it. A technician may have done it differently but what I did was an effective solution for me. |
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Bill Ford
From:
Graniteville SC Aiken
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Posted 13 Oct 2009 4:18 am
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_________________
Bill Ford S12 CLR, S12 Lamar keyless, Misc amps&toys Sharp Covers
Steeling for Jesus now!!! |
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Don Brown, Sr.
From:
New Jersey
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Posted 13 Oct 2009 12:31 pm
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Bill,
I hope you didn't take what I said to Ron, the wrong way. My reference to what you had said, was only to clear up to Ron, what you meant.
What you had to say, (in how you fixed yours) was no less important, than what I or anyone else had to say. The outcome was, (it worked) is the important thing.
Many times the obvious is right before our eyes, and goes unnoticed.
Anytime a rod goes through or passes between another pull bar, that too, becomes a part of the overall pull train, when considering where problems might be located. Whether or not it's physically connected (used only as a rod guide) can cause problems if not in correct alignment, with the rest of that pull train, and/or a number of other reasons, such as a small burr causing a hang up, etc, etc.
Nonetheless a great innovation for keeping the pulls neat and orderly.
All things being equal, I'd have to say that a lack of maintenance (especially lubrication) is the main cause of most problems...... Don |
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richard burton
From:
Britain
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Posted 13 Oct 2009 12:41 pm
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Do you know what I think the problem is ?
I think it's the threads of the 'A' pedal pull-rod catching in its hole in the 5th string finger, when the 'C' pedal is pressed  |
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Drew Howard
From:
48854
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Posted 13 Oct 2009 12:42 pm
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Ron,
This is Drew, we met at Bubba's wake. I've had a few Carters. Where are you located?
Drew |
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Ron Mishler
From:
Michigan, USA
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Posted 13 Oct 2009 1:47 pm
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| Hey Drew I'm here in South Lansing off Miller Rd where are you located? |
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Drew Howard
From:
48854
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Posted 13 Oct 2009 2:19 pm
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Ron,
I'm right by 96 and Okemos Rd.
410-9936
Drew |
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Bill Miller
From:
Gaspe, Quebec, Canada
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Posted 13 Oct 2009 3:02 pm
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| Quote: |
Bill,
I hope you didn't take what I said to Ron, the wrong way. My reference to what you had said, was only to clear up to Ron, what you meant. |
Don, absolutely no offense taken whatsoever. From what I gather the solution I settled on is not favored by Carter due to the increased pedal stiffness it creates. But after carefully going through all of the other procedures that were supposedly going to fix it, the problem remained. What I did completely resolved the issue and I actually prefer the slightly stiffer 'A' pedal so it worked out fine. I should add that it wasn't my idea, someone on here suggested it to me at the time. |
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Ron Mishler
From:
Michigan, USA
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Posted 13 Oct 2009 3:29 pm
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Well, thanks for all your help! After a few Days I'm wore out but the band-aid is not going to fix this problem. I've oil, straightened, used foam lowered my "A" & "C" pedal height, but I will have to do what Bill suggested because it looks like all the pedal and knee lever are affected (all on string 4 & 5) by engaging my "B" & "C" pedals so someone more qualified than myself will have to look at it eventually. My initial concern was the noise coming through the amps. I hope it's not to Major starting to worry.
Thank you Ron  |
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Don Brown, Sr.
From:
New Jersey
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Posted 13 Oct 2009 4:01 pm
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Richard,
Yes, I agree.
On both of my Carters, I believe the nylons go on past the threads, was the reason I didn't mention that, since he said his steel was a Carter.
Good point though, nontheless!....
Thanks Bill, I agree, what works is what counts. I simply like my "A" pedal, with a softer longer stoke, for using 1/2 pedal...... |
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