Numbering System

Robert Harper · From: Alabama, USA

In the numbering system numbers are used to represent the chord or notes. Now here is the question. A player is playing in the Key of Bb. Bb B C C# D D# E F F# G G# A Bb. I have too many notes in this scale. Anyway Bb=1, C=3 D=5, So if there is an Em and Am what are the number representative 6 and 11 ?? Is there a rule and what note should I have left out of the scale above and why?
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"Oh what a tangled web we weave when we first begin to deceive" Someone Famous

Dean Parks · From: Sherman Oaks, California, USA

If you're talking about the Nashville numbering system, there are 7 numbers representing the major scale of the key you're in. So if you're talking Bb, the Em would be #4- or b5- , the Am would be 7-

Nashville cats, am I correct on the sharp or flat being ahead of the number, not after?

James Morehead · From: Prague, Oklahoma, USA - R.I.P.

You have a chromatic scale, where as I've known the number system to match well with the major scale. That may make the difference for you. Try a major scale and see how it lays out for you.

Franklin · Posted 10 Oct 2009 9:05 pm

Hey Dean,

I've seen both ways. I prefer it in front of the number.....In the key of D charting C b9 chord is easier to read when its in front of the number....b7b9 as opposed to 7bb9.

Paul

richard burton · From: Britain

Shane Glover · From: Oklahoma, USA

Hi Robert,

If I remember correctly from the ol college days.
James is on the right path. The scale would be
I ii iii IV V vi vii dim Upper case represents
Major and lower case minor. This is not necessarily the Nashville Number system. But the number system I was taught in college.

Shane Smile

David Doggett · Posted 10 Oct 2009 11:20 pm

I like to use Roman numerals for chords, and regular numbers for scale notes. So the I chord is made up of 1, 3, 5; and the IV chord is 4, 6, 1. And a generic 7th chord is 1, 3, 5, b7. But a V7 chord is 5, 7, 2, 4.

Dave Magram · From: San Jose, California, USA

Robert,

1. First, you need to understand what a major scale is. Any major scale consists of seven unique notes.
Since there are 12 notes in the Western chromatic scale (C C# D D# E F F# G G# A Bb B), there are 12 possible major scales.
See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Musical_scale for more information.)

Let’s use the key of C as an example; it is easier to understand than the key of Bb, since there are no flats or sharps in the C major scale.

The C major scale consists of C, D, E,F, G, A, B,C.
These are numbered C=1, D=2, E=3, etc. up to C=8 which is the octave.

Compare the C major scale to the Western chromatic scale above.
Notice that the major scale pattern is a whole step from 1 to 2, a whole step from 2 to 3, a half-step from 3 to 4, a whole step from 4 to 5--and then that same pattern repeats from 5 to 8 (the octave).

So in the key of C, the 1=C, 3=E, and 5=G, etc.

When referring to these notes as chords, it is customary to write them in Roman Numerals. So in the key of C, the I chord=C, the IV chord=F, and the V chord=G, etc.

I’d suggest you write out the major scales for some other keys using the pattern shown above, and figure out where the 1, 3, 5 notes(the major triad notes)are, and where the I, IV, V chords are.

Here's a hint for the key of G:
G, _, _,C, _, _, F#,G
(You fill in the blanks)

Now try keys such as D, A, E, F, Bb, etc.

2. As mentioned above, chords are usually written out in music textbooks as Roman numerals (I, IV, V, etc), but the Nashville Number System uses Arabic numerals (1, 4, 5) because they are easier to read and quicker to write.

3. You seemed to ask about Em and Am in the key of Bb. Perhaps you are referring to a specific (unusual) piece of music. If not, since Em and Am are not normally part of the Bb scale, but are both in the key of G, perhaps you are referring to relative minors (VIm) and (IIm) chords, which is what those two chords (Em & Am) are in the key of G.

4. You asked about 11th and 13th chords.These will not make sense until you understand the major scale and major triads (above), and then learn about dominant seventh chords (the basis for 11th and 13th chords).

There are music theory textbooks and websites which explain all of this stuff, but most of them get very theoretical and complex very fast.
If you’re still confused, buy Forum Member Mike Perlowin’s book “Music Theory in the Real World” (only $10). He covers all of the above and a lot more such as dominant seventh, 11th, and 13th chords in a very easy- to-understand fashion.(And he offers a free supplement for steel guitarists by e-mail.)

I hope this is helpful. Smile

- Dave

(Edited for clarity, 10-11-09)

Richard Sinkler · From: aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana

Thanks to Richard Burton. Finally a picture of Paul Franklin figuring out a new lick Very Happy

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Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 55 years and still counting.

Robert Harper · From: Alabama, USA

How is the Em and Am represented. I am playing/well picking a song that is in Bb that has these two chords. Yes Richards comments were great.
_________________
"Oh what a tangled web we weave when we first begin to deceive" Someone Famous

Dave Magram · From: San Jose, California, USA

Hi Robert,

A Bb major scale is: Bb C D Eb F G A Bb

So in the key of Bb, an Em would be a #4minor (#4m), and an Am would be a 7minor (7m).

-Dave

James Morehead · From: Prague, Oklahoma, USA - R.I.P.

Dave, that's a great explanation you gave. Many will learn from your post. Cool

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