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Topic: Msa Universal |
Jimmy Gibson
From:
Cornwall, England
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Posted 6 Oct 2009 2:55 am |
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Could someone please help me,i have just bought a beautiful MSA 12 string ,it has a Super Sustain 11 P/UP but a different universal decal than the MSA used ,the reason i am trying to find out is it only has a 2 raise 2 lower changer,i have been told by the original buyer that Reece confimed it as being a universal,but i am not sure because of the limited changer,it needs a three raise changer to add the extra pulls on the 4th 5th and 6 th strings to set it up as a UNI,or did it use turnbuckles?.
SN IC6297
J G
Last edited by Jimmy Gibson on 6 Oct 2009 4:34 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Scott Howard
From:
Georgetown, TN, USA
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Posted 6 Oct 2009 3:49 am
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there are several ways to get triple raise / lowers out of the double raise / lower changer . I will make one example today and post a picture.
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"The Oddball" A MSA Keyless with pedals to the right. |
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Jimmy Gibson
From:
Cornwall, England
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Posted 6 Oct 2009 4:50 am
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[quote="Scott Howard"]there are several ways to get triple raise / lowers out of the double raise / lower changer . I will make one example today and post a picture.[/quote.
Hi Scott,thanks for your reply,i know i could use the Bud Carter 5 pedal universal set up,but the problem with that is i play the Jimmy Day pedal set up.
The only other way is to use turnbuckles,but because of the limited space they could be a bit hard to get to.at the moment i have it set up as a universal by leaving the C pedal off.
Is there is another way?i wonder..
J G. |
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Ernie Pollock
From:
Mt Savage, Md USA
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Posted 6 Oct 2009 8:18 am
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These are the two types that I have put in my '72 MSA Classic S-12U, the Bradshaw type can be turned one way to add an extra raise & turn it upside down and you can make the lower raise hole into another lower hole. they work great & I have them on two S-12 MSA's to tell the truth. Just make them out of a little piece of aluminum & get the distance from the holes your using on your guitar & raise all you like.
I am surprised that no one has these for sale. I have had to make all my own, which is a bit of work but well worth it.
Ernie Pollock  |
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Jimmy Gibson
From:
Cornwall, England
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Posted 6 Oct 2009 8:48 am
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Hi Ernie,thanks for the reply but the pics are not very clear,and i don`t understand how they work,is there anyway you could show in detail how they are fitted because i can get them made if i have a clearer pic and details of how they workThanks..
J Gibson. |
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Scott Howard
From:
Georgetown, TN, USA
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Posted 6 Oct 2009 9:56 am
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see if this helps. I just made this one in a hurry and it should give you the idea. I have the ends milled out on my guitar and have even turned these sideways and raised the fourth string from the third string hole in the changer.
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"The Oddball" A MSA Keyless with pedals to the right. |
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Jimmy Gibson
From:
Cornwall, England
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Posted 6 Oct 2009 11:23 am
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Thanks Scott,what a great idea,many thanks.
J G.. |
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Bill Ford
From:
Graniteville SC Aiken
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Posted 6 Oct 2009 12:58 pm
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From #1 of Bradshaw's cassette club newsletter.It had the 1984 ISG convention add on the back cover.....Bill
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Bill Ford S12 CLR, S12 Lamar keyless, Misc amps&toys Sharp Covers
Steeling for Jesus now!!! |
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Darvin Willhoite
From:
Roxton, Tx. USA
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Posted 6 Oct 2009 3:01 pm
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I used four of these gadgets on an old MSA Classic S12 I just finished restoring. Three triple raises, and one triple lower. The work great. I didn't mill out the complete recess like Scott did, but I did slot the end plate vertically at each pull finger. This made it much easier to install the adapter, and reduced drag on the aluminum spacers.
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Darvin Willhoite
MSA Millennium, Legend, and Studio Pro, Reese's restored Universal Direction guitar, a restored MSA Classic SS, several amps, new and old, and a Kemper Powerhead that I am really liking. Also a Zum D10, a Mullen RP, and a restored Rose S10, named the "Blue Bird". Also, I have acquired and restored the plexiglass D10 MSA Classic that was built as a demo in the early '70s. I also have a '74 lacquer P/P, with wood necks, and a showroom condition Sho-Bud Super Pro. |
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Scott Howard
From:
Georgetown, TN, USA
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Posted 6 Oct 2009 4:18 pm
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The first one I saw them on Tom Bradshaw had rebuilt. It was also done in the vertical slots . I took it one step farther and just cut mine all the way out.
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"The Oddball" A MSA Keyless with pedals to the right. |
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Mike Perlowin
From:
Los Angeles CA
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Posted 7 Oct 2009 12:34 am
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I also use Tom Bradshaw's inserts to get 2 triple raises and one triple lower on my older MSAs. They work great, and can never wear out.
Jimmy, your guitar has a universal tuning on it, but it's not the model they called "The Universal." It's a Classic. Somebody cosmetically altered it. All the "The Universal"s and Vintage XLs had triple raise changers. Also as far as I know. MSA never made a guitar with that particular trim.
If the fretboard is an external one attached to the neck, your guitar is from around 1976 or maybe '77. If it is silk screened beneath the lacquer, it's from '78 or later.
It's still a great guitar. I have 2 of them with universal tunings on them, (with Tom's inserts) and love them both.
The letters MSA stand for Magnificent, Stupendous, and Awesome.
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Please visit my web site and Soundcloud page and listen to the music posted there.
http://www.mikeperlowin.com http://soundcloud.com/mike-perlowin |
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Bill Ford
From:
Graniteville SC Aiken
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Posted 9 Oct 2009 3:26 pm
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Does anyone know why the ribs were on the changer endplate? Seems like another friction point.
Bill
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Bill Ford S12 CLR, S12 Lamar keyless, Misc amps&toys Sharp Covers
Steeling for Jesus now!!! |
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Scott Howard
From:
Georgetown, TN, USA
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Posted 10 Oct 2009 1:37 am
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Bill
I can offer only my opinion , and that does not mean much. Originally they had 4 holes per string and I have seen the aluminum spacers wear at the point that they go through the endplate. So , yes there must be friction. I will dig some up latter and post a picture.
However it did keep everything lined up. As long as the pull rods are perfectly straight you don't have a problem but I had to do some creative bending on some of the rods on my sons guitar and I was having some problem of one finger hitting the next finger.( This of course was after the endplate was cut totally out and only seldom .) Tom Bradshaw ( or at least I think he did) slotted the end plate on a D-12 he had redone at some time or another. This should eliminate the line up problem and allow easier installment of the triple raise adapter.
I solved this by making the piece pictured in my project MSA and got the idea from a Dekley . I have my guitar back together and see no negative effects from it. Here is a picture of a ad from MSA that has the endplate holes.
I would love to see a book or link to all the tech articles like the one you posted. I have had and used these adapters and never seen the drawing until you posted it. I have a drawing of my first triple raise I did on a MSA and it worked well but was a lot of work. After I saw Tom's I never made another one of mine. I have a few pages here and there of helpful tech stuff. here is how I did my first triple raise on a MSA.
With it you tuned one pull with the pedal / knee lever stop and the other 2 at the endplate . It worked very well but took some time to make.
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"The Oddball" A MSA Keyless with pedals to the right. |
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Scott Howard
From:
Georgetown, TN, USA
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Posted 10 Oct 2009 4:39 am
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Here are some worn spacers.
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"The Oddball" A MSA Keyless with pedals to the right. |
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Jim Palenscar
From:
Oceanside, Calif, USA
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Posted 10 Oct 2009 5:02 am
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| My original lacquer 12 string MSA had a silk screened fretboard and I believe that I took delivery in late 1976. |
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Bill Ford
From:
Graniteville SC Aiken
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Posted 10 Oct 2009 6:21 am
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Scott,
Looks like another good point to keep lubed. Also FWIW..if you run short of bellcranks and have two strings side by side, I used one bellcrank to move two strings by using a longer collar that extended out of both sides...Bill
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Bill Ford S12 CLR, S12 Lamar keyless, Misc amps&toys Sharp Covers
Steeling for Jesus now!!! |
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Ernie Pollock
From:
Mt Savage, Md USA
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Posted 10 Oct 2009 8:26 am Thanks Bill
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Jimmy, Bills pictures below are super good, you can see how they work. Of course the main thing with the Bradshaw one is to get the center of the two changer holes measurement correct. You will probably have to do a little filing with a hole file, but you can make these work. The other is the Layman version, that sometimes at the end where it touches the finger sometimes has to have a little bend in toward the finger for it to catch the finger good. I have both types on my old MSA, & have had no issues with either of them.
Ernie
PS: I have also used the Bradshaw type on a couple of BMI's years back. |
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