Fret-slot gap-filling suggestions?

David Mason · From: Cambridge, MD, USA

(I put this here cause all the builders hang here....)

I need to put some dark fret line markers on a slotted maple fingerboard, and some light fret line markers on a pau ferro board, both of which I bought pre-slotted from LMII. The customary, "correct" way to do it is with some different-colored wood strips, all meticulous-like... Shocked

These are for two different steel guitar fretboards. They don't have to take any wear, and I can just slobber something into the slots and sand it all flat at the end...

I just tried to do it with some Milliput casting epoxy clay, but it was way too thick. I need something thicker than paint, but thinner than clay, that dries & hardens.... the slots are 0.023" wide, and I could dam up the sides of the slots to keep a liquid in there. Maybe.... (?) I could mix something powdery with something wet, too. But what? Question

John Billings · From: Ohio, USA

For the dark, how about bedding compound from a gun shop? Just leave out the flocking.
When my luthier made one of my basses fretless, he used some sort of off-white plastic.

Dennis Brooker · From: Iowa, USA

I suggest you use epoxie and mix it with sawdust of whatever color you choose - You can just sand some wood both dark and light and mix small batches as you need - It shouldn't take to long - Just my suggestion - DB

John Billings · From: Ohio, USA

Dennis, bedding compound is an epoxy. Here's some in tubes that don't have to be mixed.
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=970250#enlarge

Tom Pettingill · From: California, USA (deceased)

You can mix lots of cool stuff in epoxy, Transtint dyes, colored chalk, tempura paint powder, glitter, Pearl Essence powders, brass filings, etc.
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Rick Barnhart · From: Arizona, USA

Ground coffee! (and to lighten it, I guess you could add some creamer) Wink

John Billings · From: Ohio, USA

Now that is just cool Rick! I once stained a birdseye maple gunstock with Redman Chewing tabacky and walnut husks soaked in alcohol. And an 1810 chest of drawers that I restored had originally been tinted red with brick dust!

Rick Barnhart · From: Arizona, USA

Thanks John, but I certainly can't take the credit. This is all Mark Bracewell's doing.
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David Mason · From: Cambridge, MD, USA

You know, slow-cure epoxy & coffee sounds... strangely coherent, and - it's all right here... and paid for.... Mr. Green

Gary Meixner · From: New York, USA

Dave,

Without a doubt liquid epoxy resins are the way to go. They are easily modified with a wide variety of thickening agents and colorants to give you exactly what you are looking for. Cabosil, colloidal silica or fumed silica is the best agent for creating thixotropy or the ability to spread easily but stay put. Ground pigments or fresco colors from an art supply shop can be added to give you whatever color you may want. Actually the silica works very well with these pigments because it is white allowing you to mix the colorants into any value from very dark to pastels and light washes. The liquid epoxy and thickeners are easy to find in any marine supply store. I happen to work for a leading epoxy formulator and would be happy to help you further if you wish to email me directly. I can also help with adhesives, clear coatings, castings etc. Just drop me a line.

Very best,

Gary

Mark Bracewell · From: Willow Glen, California

Yup - one of the wiggly boards is coffee and superglue, the other is crushed black agate. Epoxy is *really* messy - unless you can make a paste and press it in real good I would stick to something coarse and use super thin super glue. For the light frets, Coffee Mate is a good idea if you use epoxy (actually you can get white epoxy if you look for it), something more coarse like ground white marble if you use superglue.

In any case, experiment on some scrap first!

We have tried numerous kinds of rock (agate, turquoise and malachite all worked well if not too powdery), coloured epoxy (any cheap clear epoxy mixed with powdered coloured aniline dye works ok) and polymer clay (Fimo) works ok too.

If you are a purist, you'll of course want to use Hawaiian Sea Salt (a nice coral red) and fish glue.

Mark Bracewell · From: Willow Glen, California

P.S.... after this experiment I pretty much think purple MOTS is a bad idea.

Mark Bracewell · From: Willow Glen, California

P.P.S. listen to Gary - he's clearly got the knowledge.

Gary Meixner · From: New York, USA

Dave,

As a follow up I checked with Stewart Mac Donald and they sell a slow set (5 Minute type) black epoxy that would be fine if all you want is black frets. It should be thick enough to stay put. Their slow cure will have about a 30 min set up. The draw back to these types of epoxy is they never really get very hard so they are a little difficult to sand. Other than that, they are okay for what you are doing. These are mercaptan cured epoxies and are sold as glues, but they are not all that strong so don't use them for anything structural. They are characterized by a strong, musty, ammonia smell and quick set up, 5-30 minutes. If you already have some, any inert powder can be added for color. There are plenty of suggestions above. Just do a test to make sure you get the results you want.

Best always,

Gary

Tom Wolverton · From: Carpinteria, CA

I've made quite a few instruments over the years and I have to tell you....I've had bad luck with 5-min epoxy for inlay filler where I shot nitro-lac over it (like in a peghead) The 5-min epoxy seems to out-gas for a long time and it reacted with the laquer and clouded and lifted it. I only use Devcon 2-ton or AMR now.
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Allan Munro · From: Pennsylvania, USA and Scotland

Gary, Tom,

Can either (both?) of you recommend an epoxy that is stable AND is suitable for sanding flush after it sets?

I was intending to use some dark sanding dust as a colorant. Comments on that would be welcome too. A black epoxy would make that unnecessary.

Thanx in advance, Allan.....
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Tom Wolverton · From: Carpinteria, CA

I now use Devcon 2-ton clear epoxy and mix in the black inlay filler that Stu-Mac sells. I have good luck with that. You just have to make sure to load up the epoxy with *only* enough to make it black and opaque. Too much and the epoxy doesn't seem to harden as well. my 2 cents worth here. I'm sure someone with more experience has something better out there.
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Gary Meixner · From: New York, USA

Tom,

You have brought up a good point. Epoxy formulations vary widely. The problem you described is due to solvents that get trapped in the epoxy as it cures and are released very slowly over time. It also causes the material to shrink a little.

The 5 min type of epoxy may or may not contain sovents. This is also true of most other epoxy formulations. Some formulators will use inexpensive solvents to modify the resin rather than use more expensive diluents that become part of the cured matrix.

Solvent free formulas are often called 100% solids epoxy. Generally speaking 100% solids or solvent free formuals are better choices but there are of couse exceptions to every rule. The Devcon product that you mentioned is probably a solvent free formula.

I have answered Dave in a seperate email and I don't want to turn this into a commercial for my company but my preference for this type of work is to use a 100% solids, liquid epoxy formulation as manufactured by WEST or my company, System Three Resins: the Devcon 2 Ton sounds like a good choice as well. It should be thickened with colloidal silica which is easy to find in a marine supply and dry pigments from an art supply house. This combination will give you endless variety of colors and the ability to make the material as thick or thin as need be. Any inert material can be added for color, stones, glass, etc., but for fine detail the material should as fine and uniform as possible. The hardeners are caustic and can react with some materials so always do a test.

Here is the hitch, it is often not easy to get the products I just mentioned in small quantities or locally; that is why I first suggested 5 min epoxy. For some, mail order may be the only choice. Luthiers Mercantile sells our stuff and so does Jamestown Distributors and Woodcraft Supply; all can be found on the internet. If you want more specific info I am happy to help, just email me.

Keep in mind epoxies offer excellent options for clear finishes, casting parts, potting electronics and pickups as well as adhesives for just about any situation.

Gary

Allan Munro · From: Pennsylvania, USA and Scotland

Brilliant stuff. Thank you guys, much appreciated.

Allan.....
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Chris Battis · From: Reno, Nevada, USA

Or you could use wood binding strips, which are exactly the right width for a fret slot, and glue them in with Titebond. Absolutely reliable color, easy cleanup and sanding without a big mess to deal with.

http://www.lmii.com/CartTwo/thirdproducts.asp?CategoryName=Bindings+%26+Purflings&NameProdHeader=Wood+Strips+for+Purfling+%26+Trim

Rocky Hill · From: Prairie Village,Kansas, USA

.023 slot, have you considered using fret wire.

Rocky

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