Sho Bud Problem

Jim Kennedy · From: Brentwood California, USA

I just got a peterson Strobo Flip tuner and am quite pleased with the results. It actually revealed a problem and now I am stumped. I cannot get my D lever to tune up on my string 4 E. When I activate the lever it drops, but not enough. I've played with the linkage, replaced the tuning nut, loosened all of the tuning nuts--double raise double lower. I've played with the stop. I am thinking the only thing left is to swap the finger with another one. Any suggestions before I tear it down?? I totaly dismantled and cleaned the guitar when I first got it three years ago, so understanding the mechanics or doing repairs are not a problem. The guitar is a pro 1 3&2, 1984 model. Any suggestions??
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ShoBud Pro 1, 75 Tele, 85 Yamaha SA 2000, Fender Cybertwin,

Marvin Born · From: Ohio, USA

Maybe you could remove the pull rods from that string. All the rods including the raises. Then see if you get the full range that you need, both raise and lower by pushing the changer with a rod (with a small nut on it) from the changer end. This will tell you if the problem is the changer or if a pull is holding the changer from going lower as much as you need. Remember, to not push the changer so much as to break a string, there are no stops when you test this way.

Someone else can probably offer more advice then me, but you need to find out if you have a changer problem or if a rod is mis-adjusted.

Marvin

Scott Hay · From: Portland, OR / Yucca Valley, CA USA

hey Jim,

do you have the swivel style bell cranks?

If so, taking off the snap ring and putting the swivel on the bell crank hole farthest from the cross shaft will add more travel - have you tried that?

The other thing it could be is your return spring being too tight. Some people even disconnect them completely I've read on here. If that's what's causing it to happen, you'll be able to see the return spring start to pull back on the finger before it hits the stop when you engage the lever. To fix that, you can remove the spring, but you should check to make sure the string is returning to pitch after a lower.

My guess would be that it's one of those - and if not... then perhaps a new finger it is. Good luck, let us know what it was.

Leon Roberts · From: Tallahassee,FL USA

Jim, If you have a raise/helper spring on that string, remove it and try the lowering feature. The other guys has covered just about everything else. Good luck. Leon

Larry Bressington · From: Nebraska

Can you crawl underneath and activate the lever slowly and see whats happening.
I the lever still travelling whilst the finger stops?
If so the the finger is not doing it's job due to some technicality, ala return spring, rods binding etc etc
What caused this to suddenly change??
Let us know brother!
Sad

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A.K.A Chappy.

Jim Kennedy · From: Brentwood California, USA

I tried the various suggestions made. Removed all rods, removed helper spring. I also cleaned and lubed the fingers, as best you can without removing them. I haven't tried removing the string yet, but I do not think that will help. I have noticed that when tuning, with the other rods connected or removed, I will drop almost to D# then, the string starts going back to E. It does this even with all the rods removed, the helper spring disconnected, and the finger is manipulated by hand. I still suspect a bad finger. Any other suggestions before I tear it down??

I do not have the older style bellcrank system. I have the arm attached to the cross shaft. There is no adjustment in the cross shaft. There is a stop. When the stop is adjusted I get a little north of D#, and then it starts back up to E, just as described above.

The problem has been there all along. Using the Jeff Newman settings on the Stroboflip simply made it more pronounced. I was tuning my E's straight up and then tuning the guitar by ear. Something always seemed just a touch off. Now I know. The stroboflip is definetely worth the money.

Thanks for all the help thus far.
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ShoBud Pro 1, 75 Tele, 85 Yamaha SA 2000, Fender Cybertwin,

richard burton · From: Britain

Looking at the animation on the Carter website
http://www.steelguitar.com/steelmap/maptop/charivdn.htm
I think that maybe the lower finger has worn away where it contacts the raise

Brint Hannay · From: Maryland, USA

What Richard said sounds likely to be the problem. That does happen sometimes to the pot metal fingers. Someone a couple of years ago posted a photo of a finger assembly with a substantial gouge where the nose of the lower finger had dug into the string-bearing finger.

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

Jim Kennedy · From: Brentwood California, USA

I have exchanged emails with John Coop. He says the finger is bad, as I suspected. I think I am going to bite the bullet and order a complete overhaul from him. Thanks everyone for your suggestions. I will keep you posted on the overhaul.
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ShoBud Pro 1, 75 Tele, 85 Yamaha SA 2000, Fender Cybertwin,

mike nolan · From: Forest Hills, NY USA

Jim,

I replaced all of the fingers on one of my Sho~Buds with Coop's super fingers. It is the best playing guitar that I own.... just do it and don't look back.

Tony Glassman · From: The Great Northwest

Anthony Chavez · From: Everywhere, New Mexico

I have the exact same problem with my Sho~bud lowering my E to Eb on my fourth string but the eight sting does it just fine. But this problem has caused me to lose sleep too. Mad

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Tony Ch@vez "UNWOUND"

Rob van Duuren · From: The Netherlands

Jim,

what most likely is happening, is that the lower and raise fingers aren't moving freely enough from eachother. In other words, you start pulling the lowering finger, and just before the end of the travel it starts pulling the raise finger too. That's
why the note goes up again. Completely useless information if you already solved it, but nevertheless....

Second possibility, worn finger. Evrytime you activate a pull, a small groove is been 'cut' in the finger. Getting bigger in time. After a while it will be so deep, a smooth movement is not possible anymore. Same effect. You need a new finger. Nice design, 'super pro'.

Rob

James Morehead · From: Prague, Oklahoma, USA - R.I.P.

Rob hit the nail on the head, if that's the style finger you have. Just bend that tab over to a fresh spot on the finger and play it another 15 years. Ain't pot metal fun?? Evil Twisted

Stuart Legg · Posted 28 Sep 2009 9:43 am

When there is a problem with lowering the 4th string it is sometimes caused by the rod coming from the C pedal on the 4th string not having enough space left between the nylon tuning nut and the finger causing it to become a stop when it is in the process of lowering. So I have set the stop and the nut on the C pedal to where it travels a little ways before the nut hits the finger but still arrives at the desired pitch. You must adjust the C pedal 5th string to compensate for the change. If I leave this space the 4th string usually works properly.

James Morehead · From: Prague, Oklahoma, USA - R.I.P.

Very good point, Stuart. Cool

Marvin Born · From: Ohio, USA

As quick solution, you could swap finger four for finger seven or nine, or any finger that does not lower. That would tell you for sure if the finger is the problem and give you temporary fix until you get the guitar "Cooped."

Marvin

Jim Kennedy · From: Brentwood California, USA

Thanks for all of the replies. I have the fingers from Coop, a work of art. I am getting ready to do a complete refinish and overhaul with Coop parts. I will probably start sanding this week on the guitar. I have done a lot of research on finishes and am going to try a water based lacquer substitute. My research indicates that both hobby and professional luthiers are having excellent results. No need for harsh chemicals, just a good spray gun and a fan to circulate the air. I am planning on taking pictures and posting the results. If anyone would like to wade in about the pros and cons of water based finishes, feel free. Maybe we should start a new thread??
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ShoBud Pro 1, 75 Tele, 85 Yamaha SA 2000, Fender Cybertwin,

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