1st and 7th string raise

Zach Keele · From: Murfreesboro, Tennessee, USA

I'm asking a lot of knee lever questions lately, but I'm trying to figure out what I have available now before I add a vertical lever.

Give me some practical uses for the F# to G change if you can.

Also, currently my 1st string raises to G (edited), and my 7th raises to G. I know most newer guitars raise the 7th to G#. What are the advantages and disadvantages to both changes? Which would be better to play modern country music (I live close to Nashville)?

Thanks for sharing your knowledge with a young guy.

Zach

Barry Hyman · From: upstate New York, USA

I have a knee lever that raises strings 1 and 7 from F# to G.

I prefer that because:

1) G is a new note -- you already have G# on the 3rd and 6th strings.
2) If you press pedals A+B and add this knee, your A chord (in open position) becomes A7.
3) This knee lever will give you a G chord on strings 10, 9, 7, 5, and 1.
4) It can be used to get an Em chord or an E minor scale in open position, or as an added "blue note" in E blues.

The F# to G# whole step raise is less interesting musically, to my way of thinking, although there is certainly a lot you can do with it...
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Joseph Barcus · From: Volga West Virginia

The F# to G will be more useful if you want to play some haggard, Jennings, material the F# to G# is a nice sound but limited uses in my opinion.
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Greg Cutshaw · From: Corry, PA, USA

I've got 10 or so tabs for this on my web site. You can use the built in Google search for them or just look for the F# or 1st sstring raise in the description.

http://www.gregcutshaw.com/

In the past year I've been keeping the 1st string raise at a full tone and just get used to hitting it half way or just quickly retune it to a half tone for whatever song requires that. You can tune it pretty fast at the endplate to quickly switch between a G# and a G pull. That way you have both changes on string 1.

Greg

Nick Reed · From: Russellville, KY USA

I agree with Joe Barcus, I've tried them both and like his change better.

Joseph Barcus · From: Volga West Virginia

Nick
I like your bands web site nice tunes there as well. Joe
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Zach Keele · From: Murfreesboro, Tennessee, USA

Thanks Greg, Joe, and Nick. I've been fooling around with it tonight, my wife's at work so tonight is 4 hour steel guitar learning time. No goofing off. I havn't changed the 7 to a G# and tried it yet, but I like the easy 7th chord. Sometimes it will be better to slide back two frets for it, but engaging the lever while its played is a nice sound. I think I'll leave it the way is for now.

Any more ways to use the change would be nice, maybe some tabbed out pockets. Very Happy

Marc Friedland · From: Fort Collins, CO

Zach,
I raise my 1st string a whole tone to G# and my 7th string a half step to G. This works well for me at the moment. Obviously, I never play those 2 strings together at the same time.
Marc

Ryan Barwin · From: Hamilton, Ontario, Canada

At the moment, I raise my 1st and 7th strings to G on LKR, but occasionally, I'll tune the raises up to G#. (I tried to put a half-stop on my guitar, but couldn't get it in tune, so this works well enough.)

I find the F# to G# change is much more useful if you also raise the 2nd string from D# to E. That way, without the lever, you have the 5 chord on strings 5, 2 and 1 (B D# F#, if you're playing in E), and with the lever, you get the 1 chord (B E G#). You can do some nice chord changes with this. If you're playing in B, then you can have your 1 chord with the lever, and your 4 chord without it.
You can do the same thing by alternating between the E to D# lever for the 8th string, and the F# to G# raise on string 7.
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Pat Comeau · From: New Brunswick, Canada

This is David Hartly Copedent 5 pedals and 5 knees on his RAINS STEEL,
and i think it's one of the best E9th copedent i've seen Whoa!

,
i really like this copedent and i think i'm gonna try it on one of my 2 steel i'm building. Smile

P1 RAISE 5+10 B-C#

P2 RAISE 3+6 G#-A

P3 RAISE 4 E-F#
RAISE 5 B-C#

P4 RAISE 1 F#-G#
RAISE 2 Eb-E

P5 LOWER 5+10 B-A

LKL RAISE 4+8 E-F

VERT LOWER 6 G#-F#

LKR RAISE 1+7 F#-G

RKL LOWER 4+8 E-Eb

RKR LOWER 2 Eb-D-Db
LOWER 9 D-C#
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Ryan Barwin · From: Hamilton, Ontario, Canada

That's a cool copedent, Pat...it's got pretty much everything. Though I'd move pedal 4 to a zero pedal to make it faster to hit.
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John Bechtel · From: Nashville, Tennessee, R.I.P.

I have the common #4 & #8 (½-tone) Raise on my LKL, but; I have an extra LKL that Raises #1 & #7 (½-tone) [F# to G]. Then my RKL Raises #1 (1-tone) F# to G#, #2 (½-tone) D# to E and Lowers #6 (1-tone) G# to F#, which puts a G on #6 when combined with the B-pedal. _ _ _ On my other PSG, with only the RKL, I Raise #1 (½-tone) F# to G and Lower #6 (1-tone) G# to F#. This gives me a reasonable-choice on either guitar!
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Mike Perlowin · From: Los Angeles CA

Raising the F# strings to G# gives you a lick. (Admittedly a cool sounding lick, but a lick nonetheless.)

Raising them to G natural increases the melodic and harmonic possibilities of the guitar.
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Franklin · Posted 25 Sep 2009 5:09 am

Mike,

To call the F# to G# a lick change is understating its purpose by a mile.

Another way of looking at this change is to think about the harmonic possibilities we get by lowering the G# to F# which we all know is more than a lick change.

Raising the F#'s to G# is the reverse of that change and when it is combined harmonically with the A & B pedals the melody options become endless.

You don't lose the 3rd and 6th string B pedal notes with this change. And you can bend in and out of those notes which to me is what the steel does best.

When you hear Tommy White play what sounds like strings 3 and 5 but then it bends into a resolve you can't quite figure out, this is how the change is best used. It gives you a less predictable way of resolving from harmonies using a third or a major seventh of which Tommy is a master.

Paul

Bent Romnes · From: London,Ontario, Canada

Paul, how about putting a half stop on the F# to G# change and thereby getting both of these changes on one lever?
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Zach Keele · From: Murfreesboro, Tennessee, USA

John,

Is that a common change for guitars with the Crawford Cluster? I doubt I ever go that route, although it might be nice to have another lever for something like this... I love Mr. Hartley's playing, but I believe that 5th pedal would be too much trouble for me to hit. If anything the knee lever would seem like a better idea for me, but I could just retune to G# if need be.

What are some ways of using the G change besides Mooney style licks and 7th chords?

What are some ways of using the G# change?

I'm trying to ask the questions that matter, so we players that have been playing less than a year or two can better understand the reason for the different approaches to this change.

Thanks

Franklin · Posted 25 Sep 2009 6:42 am

Bent,

I have the half stop change on the lever and it works fine. You can also slant the bar for the half tone stuff for another variation in tone. I use the whole tone change a lot more than the half tone raise.

Modern music is full of cluster voiced chords. Those are chords voiced tightly together using a lot of minor 2nd intervals. Being able to use the A notes with the G#'s gives me more of those options. The dominant seventh sounds are not as common as they once were in commercial music. Without the G note raise there are tons of dominant sevenths across the fretboard and very few minor second intervals which is why this change is becoming more crucial for playing modern forms of commercial music.

Paul

Chris LeDrew · From: Canada

I like the 1st string F# to G# raise for bending into a Maj 7 in the AB position. Also, "falling" from the G# to the F# in a descending major scale in the open position is so much sweeter than picking two separate strings. I consider these changes to be a lot more than just flash. They add to the beauty of a passage, and broaden your capacity for expressing yourself. Add a 2nd string half-tone raise and watch the possibilities open even more. Thanks, Paul, for your great instructional CD on the F# - G# raise. I highly recommend it.

If I want a half-tone raise on the 1st string, I usually just pull it with my third finger or feel-stop the whole tone lever.
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Zach Keele · From: Murfreesboro, Tennessee, USA

Thanks Chris for the recommendation. I will get Paul's instruction for the change, and thanks Paul for answering my question as to why the change is used.

I have no trouble with the half stop on my Eb to C# lever, so I'll add a half stop for the Mooney licks.

With Paul's instruction and Greg's site I'll get it sorted out.

Thanks guys.

Bent Romnes · From: London,Ontario, Canada

Paul, thanks for your detailed reply and explanation. I will do exactly that change on one of my home builts.
Great thread. Very educational when a player of your stature gets involved. Thanks again.
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Greg Cutshaw · From: Corry, PA, USA

Here's some links to my tab that I could find in a few minutes with this change. It's used all over my songs for both chords, melody and pulled notes.

http://www.gregcutshaw.com/Tab/Tab.html

E9th - Unison strings and high F# to G# Knee Lever

E9th - See one way to use the 1st string F# to G# and 2nd string Eb to E raises

http://www.gregcutshaw.com/Tab/Tab10.html

Some Contemporary Sounds - E9th - Raising string 1 a full tone, string 2 a half tone, lowering string 9 a half tone

There's a lot more tabs on my site for this but they are not labeled as such. Also you will find a lot of uses there for the 2nd string raise, and 9th and 10th string lower.

Greg

Mike Perlowin · From: Los Angeles CA

Paul, you clearly know so much more than me, I wouldn’t presume to disagree with you. Since I don’t have the F# to G# change, and have not explored it, I underestimated it’s potential use.

However, I stand by my statement that the F# to G natural change expands the instrument’s melodic and harmonic potential. It does a lot more than add a 7th to the pedals-down A chord position. I am currently working on a tune that uses a modal scale that I get by leaving the A pedal up, depressing the B pedal, and raising the F# strings to G natural on the vertical.

Personally, if it were an either/or situation, I’d go with the G natural. Fortunately those who want both changes can have them by adding another knee lever, or a half stop.
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Franklin · Posted 25 Sep 2009 3:04 pm

Mike,

Thanks for your reply. Because I have both changes on my steel, I am aware of what each change accomplishes.

I did not mean to diminish either change or to imply that the half tone raise is only used for seventh sounds. I also use it for more types of harmonies.

Having said that, when I play live gigs, the whole tone raise always trumps the half tone change in usage. Which changes we like the best depends on how and what we choose to play.

I'm primarily speaking to those who assume they have to choose one change over the other.

Its better to have both changes over one. Half stops are easy to use and stay in tune.

If either the whole or half raise is on the guitar, why not have both options on one lever?

Paul

Zach Keele · From: Murfreesboro, Tennessee, USA

"If either the whole or half raise is on the guitar, why not have both options on one lever?

Paul"

Those are my thoughts as well.

Thanks for the info. This is what i'll do, then I'll have my Kate and Edith too.

Pat Comeau · From: New Brunswick, Canada

Paul !,

Would you mind showing us your actual copedent if you don't mind Embarassed

, i'm building 2 steel and i'm still looking for the right copedent , i know you have your E's lower on the Right , it's always nice to see what others use it gives me more ideas Smile

.

thanks..............Pat C.
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