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Topic: How to approach Sacred Steel? |
Thomas Bohlen
From:
New York, NY
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Posted 22 Sep 2009 7:27 am |
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There's something quite alluring to me about Steel and Gospel. While not looking to play in a church band I would love to add some of those sounds to my working bands. I've had very limited contact with Sacred Steel players and only a hand full of youtube videos.
Just wondering what you guys thought would be a good way to go about learning some of that.
Are you able to get their sounds on an E9?
I haven't worked on the C6 yet, and if its another tuning...oh oh..
Can anyone recommend some good listening?
Thanks! |
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David Doggett
From:
Bawl'mer, MD (formerly of MS, Nawluns, Gnashville, Knocksville, Lost Angeles, Bahsten. and Philly)
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Posted 22 Sep 2009 8:31 am
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Well, it is another tuning: click here
It's an E7 tuning. There are no 6ths, 9ths, or "chromatic strings" to avoid. So you can strum across the strings with abandon (Sacred Steelers call this frailing).
However, a lot of it is single string stuff, which you can play on any tuning, as long as you stay on the main chord strings (the 1, 3, and 5 of the chord). Also, 1 5 1 power chords can be plucked, and low power chords are right there on Extended E9 and universal tunings. It also helps to become familiar with pentatonic major and pentatonic minor scales, which are also extensively used in blues/rock.
Many SS players use a grooved bar to make jumping around the neck easy. My favorite is the Shubb Pearse #2. And many of them use a lot of wah effect, either by turning the tone knob on a lap steel, or with a wah pedal on pedal steel. And on pedals steel, they don't make much use of the pedals. It's basically a lap steel style. |
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Chris Johnson
From:
USA
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Posted 23 Sep 2009 10:23 am
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DTCkNOCDyXs&feature=related
There are so many different styles of sacred steel these days. I posted the video because I think that it well describes the differences between the newer approach and the traditional SS style.
The sacred steel style and tuning that David describes is the older (old school) traditional style of playing which can occasionally be heard in some African American Pentecostal churches. Few young players still play the single string song style with limited pedal use and "framming".
Some younger steelers still play in E7 but many of the better players are playing in a standard E9/B6 universal or a modified universal tuning with extensive pedal use for complex chords. See my personal copedent for example. Its a E6/9-B6 copedent.
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Rick Schmidt
From:
Prescott AZ, USA
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Posted 23 Sep 2009 10:53 am
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I'm no expert on this, but from what I can tell, an important aspect is to emulate a great gospel/blues singer's phrasing as much as possible. Those guys really embraced the vocal quality that our instrument is so rich with. Most importantly, they do it in the spirit of raising their voices to glorify the Lord.
I think the tuning is just a small part of the whole vibe. |
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Jon Light
From:
Saugerties, NY
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Posted 23 Sep 2009 11:45 am
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But to address some specifics of the tuning-----I had an opportunity to chat very briefly with Robert Randolph after a show a few years ago and he suggested a change that I have embraced.
I play too much other more traditional stuff and did not want to radically alter my E9/B6 tuning by ditching the 7th string F# (way too integral to the B6) but that F# is a total mess for frailing type stuff---you'll see those two E strings on the SS tunings with the 7th string E raising to F#. I do the reverse---a standard F# that I lower to E on a lever so I can rock & frail. |
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Dean Parks
From:
Sherman Oaks, California, USA
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Posted 23 Sep 2009 3:56 pm
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One correction... RR and Roosevelt both use the A pedal a lot on blues and melody lines.
Aubrey on non-pedal also does a lot of what RR often does, which is stay on one string for pentatonic blues scales... they have the "frets" grooved in very strong, and can run those scales quickly and accurately on one string.
Another thing is the pentatonic scale on separate strings, with excellent blocking, and tremolo on one string.. Roosevelt with index and thumb, RR with a thumb-index-middle roll.
Roosevelt and RR tend to play back with the palm near the changer fingers (bridge).
One more thing- On the clip offered above, Roosevelt is always ready with his diminished chord (pedals and/or levers). |
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Jon Light
From:
Saugerties, NY
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Posted 23 Sep 2009 4:09 pm
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| btw---I picked up David's word 'frailing' when I meant to say 'framming'. Maybe interchangeable but frailing, to me, evokes Pete Seeger who I will happily evoke/invoke every day of the week but it's not what I'm talking about here. |
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David Doggett
From:
Bawl'mer, MD (formerly of MS, Nawluns, Gnashville, Knocksville, Lost Angeles, Bahsten. and Philly)
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Posted 23 Sep 2009 6:55 pm
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Yeah, I meant “framming.”
As Rick says, emulating the gospel vocal phrasing is a big part of the style. And as Chris says, there are a lot of individual styles and tunings. The older guys tend to play the old lap steel style. Younger guys use 10-14-string pedal steels with some type of E tuning. Robert Randolph and his mentor Chuck Campbell are masters of the E7 pedal steel tuning. They can do runs up and down single strings or across their many strings. And I’ve seen both of them do whole songs without hardly touching a pedal, although they might be hitting a lever a lot. But they can also use their whole copedent for some beautiful gospel chords, when the song needs that.
I don’t really do much gospel, but I use a fairly standard S12 E9/B6 universal for blues and blues/rock. On an E9-like tuning, Dan Tyack has a lever that raises the F# on string 1 to G#, raises the D# on string 2 to E, and lowers the F# on string 7 to E. I have these same changes on a zero pedal on my uni. It gives almost 3 octaves of E chord notes, with no strings to skip.
The bottom line is that Sacred Steel is a style of playing, not a tuning. You can play the style on whatever tuning you are already comfortable with. But of course, like with any style, customizing your setup in certain ways makes it easier to play the style. |
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Franklin
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Posted 23 Sep 2009 8:02 pm
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If you are interested in raking all of the strings for rhythm purposes, on the E9th add a lever that lowers the 7th string F# to E and raises the 9th string D to E . This change would allow you to strum with or without pedals. I see no need to change tunings to play this style.
If I chose to add this change to my guitar I would add those two string changes to the lever that lowers the 2nd string a whole or half tone. I would not lose much if anything on the country side while gaining more rhythmic choices for rock or blues.
Paul
Last edited by Franklin on 25 Sep 2009 3:29 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Earnest Bovine
From:
Los Angeles CA USA
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Posted 23 Sep 2009 10:08 pm
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| Franklin wrote: |
If you are interested in raking all of the strings for rhythm purposes, on the E9th add a lever that lowers the 7th string F# to E and raises the 8th string D to E . ..
If I chose to add this change to my guitar I would add those two string changes to the lever that lowers the 2nd string a whole or half tone. |
I like this and have had it on RKL for >25 years. (But it lowers 9 D to C#, rather than raise to E as Paul suggests.) I can strum A major or C# minor on the 10 open strings in the middle. That wasn't the purpose of lowering F# but it is a nice side benefit once in a while.
But I can't do it while standing up and dancing like Robert Randolph does. |
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J Fletcher
From:
London,Ont,Canada
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Posted 24 Sep 2009 3:55 am
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That's a lot of E's! Is the point to have three unison strings?
At the risk of sounding obvious, if you would like to incorporate sacred steel sounds into your playing, you need to listen, listen, listen, and practice, practice, practice...Jerry |
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Chris Johnson
From:
USA
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Posted 24 Sep 2009 4:41 am
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| Quote: |
| The bottom line is that Sacred Steel is a style of playing, not a tuning. You can play the style on whatever tuning you are already comfortable with. But of course, like with any style, customizing your setup in certain ways makes it easier to play the style. |
I couldn't have said it better myself. That's why in most SS tunings, you see either a 7bth or 6th tone between the high e and b. It creates the possibility of playing awesome pentatonic and major scale runs with ease without pedals stretching the string(s) making it still sound like your playing country (with a little overdrive). Musically speaking, Can you play those blistering rock runs in standard E9? Sure, but I sure hope that your fingers can keep up with your feet and knees and that your steel is still under warrantee. I believe a pedal C6 style tuning would be easier to adapt to a "modern" SS playing style.
| Quote: |
| That's a lot of E's! Is the point to have three unison strings? |
B0b describes the reasoning for this pretty good and simple.
"The most strikingly original thing about this tuning is the doubling of the middle E string. The reasoning behind it is a brilliant strategy for playing rhythm. When you want a major or minor triad, the doubled string allows you to strum across the strings and still get a triad. When you want a denser chord (6ths, 7ths, 9ths and diminished chords, for example), you raise one E and lower the other."
If anyone has any questions or concerns with my particular copedent, feel free to address it to me here or on my email.
I'm surprised Dan Tyack hasn't chimed in here yet? |
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Franklin
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Posted 24 Sep 2009 4:51 am
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The side benefit is that the unison E's add a doubling effect to the sound. The reason for unison notes is because the E note is the constant note within all of the chords that the two A & B pedals make when strumming. The E note is also the only pull option found in the open major chord that also works with what is found using the A & B pedals.
Paul |
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Franklin
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Posted 24 Sep 2009 5:45 am
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I believe musical variations are inside the musician, not the tuning.
"Its amazing how much ground a dog can cover, in any direction, when it stops chasing its tail".
Paul |
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Franklin
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Posted 24 Sep 2009 6:13 am
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Thomas,
Sorry I drifted away from your question. Check out Chuck Campbell. Chuck Is the Emmons of that world. His band does gospel.
The E9th tuning will work great. Much of what identifies the sacred style is found with the bar on one string. If I was going to pursue this direction I would listen more to vocalists like Patty Labelle, Aretha Franklin, Stevie Wonder, etc. to pick up on soulful phrased riffs. I would apply them using one or a couple of strings. As for the guitar sounding stuff Stevie Ray Vaughn records will give you a library of licks. I would probably source Buddy Guy, Joe Walsh, Steve Vai, Derrick Trucks, and Clapton for some variation. |
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Archie Nicol R.I.P.
From:
Ayrshire, Scotland
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Posted 24 Sep 2009 6:36 am
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Fellow forumite Pastor Del Ray Grace has some great stuff on his Sacred Strings site.
pick here
Arch. |
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Franklin
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Posted 24 Sep 2009 8:17 am
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Archie,
Thanks for the clip. Del Ray is really soulful.
Thomas,
That clip is within the scope of the E9th and C6th tunings.
Paul |
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Chris Johnson
From:
USA
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Posted 24 Sep 2009 11:45 am
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Sorry Thomas,
I'm also guilty of drifting away from your question. There is so much history within the style and traditional gospel music. I would advise you purchase this DVD from Arhoolie to expand your knowledge with the development of the tradition and where it all started in the 1930's.
http://www.arhoolie.com/titles/203dvd.shtml
Paul Franklin has some really great input (as expected from a legend) and provides some great listening.
I also understand that playing the SS style is within the player. A great player could do amazing things in any style with a 3 string steel guitar.
Chuck Campbell is a living legend of the SS universe. He's a master of the traditional style and the creator of the modern playing style. He's also the innovator behind the pedal steel SS tuning (E7) and the "double E's". He is also adept in standard E9 and C6 which he played before creating his influential 12 string tuning.
Here's a copy (from Sierra) of Chuck's tuning and RR's which is derived from his.
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Chris Johnson
From:
USA
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Bob Stone
From:
Gainesville, FL, USA
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Posted 24 Sep 2009 3:00 pm
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Hi,
First, thanks Chris for directing Forum members to the radio program I produced a while back. Many of you may be disappointed that the music segments are so short--and I hate that too--but my mission was to communicate to a general audience in 29 minutes a bit of history, context, and some of the issues the musicians deal with.
In my experience, to learn a musical style or genre you did not grow up with you must immerse yourself deeply into not only the music but the culture, too. For example, Tracy Schwarz (not a Cajun) has been playing Cajun accordion for about 25 or 30 years, and immersed himself in Cajun culture. Still, he says his ambition is to play as well as the average 12-year-old in Louisiana. Growing up in a musical culture counts for a whole lot. Most sacred steel musicians have been surrounded by the music longer than they can remember.
Regarding technique, I have not read every bit of this thread, so maybe this has already been mentioned: A lot of sacred steel is played up and down the neck, rather than across. Dan Tyack will tell you that. Practice playing extended passages on one string.
Sometimes one can hear the style more clearly by listening to a familiar tune played "sacred steel style." Check out Chuck Campbell's "Silent Night" on the Campbell Bros. Holiday album, or Aubrey Ghent's "Amazing Grace" on his Arhoolie album, or on the YouTube video Chris Johnson recently posted a link to.
I love this Forum.
Bob Stone |
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George Crickmore
From:
Myrtle Beach South Carolina, USA
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Posted 30 Oct 2009 4:36 pm
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Just wondering guys.
Are the string guages any heavier or lighter
for E7 tuning?
_________________
Excel S-10,2 Williams 700 Universals,Jackson Blackjack Custom,, Goodrich LDR2 & Hilton Vol pedals,Monster 3500pro power conditioner, Morgan SW100 amp & Cab |
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Dan Tyack
From:
Olympia, WA USA
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Posted 31 Oct 2009 3:46 am
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I'll put my $.02 on this subject:
The E9th tuning is great for playing Sacred Steel music, especially the single note playing. One of the greatest Sacred Steel players I've ever heard, the late Glenn Lee, played E9th exclusively. As other people have mentioned, the main disadvantage to the E9th is in playing the SS rhythm style (framming), but that's not essential to introducing elements of the Sacred Steel style to your playing.
Paul's suggestion of a knee lever raising the D to E and lowering F# to E is good, but you miss out on the low E (an octave below the low E on E9th), which is important for the SS rhythm playing.
I use a 10 string tuning which IMHO is the best comprimise between the standard E9th and the SS tunings (there isn't a standard SS tuning). What I have done is taken a standard E9th, eliminated the D string, and added the low E below the B. I then have knee levers (seperate) to lower the 'middle' E to D, and to lower the F# to E. For me this tuning isn't just useful for the Sacred Steel style of playing, but is also really useful for playing rhythm in a lot of contexts. For example, in a rock and roll or blues context, I can back the guitar player without the bottom dropping out. It's also very useful in duo, trio or even solo playing.
Three E strings at the bottom of the tuning isn't too many. If you do unison lines with the bottom E and the two middle Es, it sounds like a freight train! 
Here's a clip of me playing this tuning in the Sacred Steel style:
Dan trying to survive
Here it is in a blues context:
Blues on pedal steel
You can see the 'horizontal' movement that Bob Stone mentions. I'm pretty sure I could play everything on both of those clips on standard E9th. |
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Dan Tyack
From:
Olympia, WA USA
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Posted 31 Oct 2009 3:56 am
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| George Crickmore wrote: |
Just wondering guys.
Are the string guages any heavier or lighter
for E7 tuning? |
The string guages are the same when you are talking about the same pitch, but the tuning goes lower than an E9th, so the lower strings will be heavier. |
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Dan Tyack
From:
Olympia, WA USA
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Posted 31 Oct 2009 4:00 am
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| Franklin wrote: |
I believe musical variations are inside the musician, not the tuning.
"Its amazing how much ground a dog can cover, in any direction, when it stops chasing its tail".
Paul |
Amen!
I learned this first hand at Possum Holler in Nashville in 1977, where I would routinely hear Paul play country ballads on the C6th, and western swing on E9th. |
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Del Ray Grace
From:
Toledo, Ohio, USA
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Posted 1 Nov 2009 6:14 am
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Hello Thomas,I'd like to recommend some good viewing and listening.
Bob Stone and Arhoolie did an excellent job researching and documenting the history of the Sacred Steel tradition of the House of God.(Keith Dominion)
Sacred Strings Records just released a live DVD of many of the living legends of our Sacred Steel tradition as well,(Jewell Dominion).
I think by observing each style presented by the players featured on both DVD's,you will have better insight of the whole concept involving the Sacred Steel tradition.You can order the DVD or CD on our website below.Hope this helps you out.
www.sacredstrings.com |
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