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Topic: Learning the BC Pedals |
Thomas Bohlen
From:
New York, NY
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Posted 16 Sep 2009 6:51 am |
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Hi everyone,
I'm a fairly young steeler (27), been playing for a year and a half now and getting comfortable in the groove. I play mostly with songwriters around Boston and do lots of atmosphere and fills for them. The other night I had my first real country gig playin Patsy, Loretta and Hank covers.and wow oh wow what a great feeling. I really got to understand how the steel FEELS playing these songs with a band. Incredible. So I got rolling, too a few solos I bastardized from the greats and am being to get a much better grasp on moving between chords, soloing etc. (rather than just playing whole note chords).
So I've been using the AB pedals like a lifeline, but I find myself never using the BC pedals unless I'm just filling in that minor chord. Really, I just don't understand how to use it in soloing. Not to mention I'm scared to move my out of the AB position!
Any help is greatly apprecitated!  |
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Ryan Barwin
From:
Hamilton, Ontario, Canada
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Joey Ace
From:
Hamilton, Ontario, Canada
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Posted 16 Sep 2009 7:37 am
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A common use of the BC pedals is to give a 2minor, from the "no pedals" position.
Naturally, two frets above that it's 3 minor.
Armed with that knowledge, you can do play a harmonized scale up the neck, as explained in the last post at
http://steelguitarforum.com/Forum8/HTML/002602.html[/code]
Last edited by Joey Ace on 16 Sep 2009 5:20 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Gerald Menke
From:
Stormville NY, USA
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Posted 16 Sep 2009 7:53 am
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The unison lick you can do raising the fourth string a whole tone to match the first, or reversing it is a lick I could not live without. If you do this one going chromatically going up or down the neck it's a good way to suggest a rock guitar type sound if you should ever need to go in that direction.
Also, pressing down B and C, sliding up a fret and releasing B will give you a really cool whole step mild dissonance that can be very effective for creating a mood. If you don't have Winnie Winston's book, get it my man, virtually every song tabbed out in there has beautiful use of the B and C pedals, especially his arrangement of "Streets of Laredo" and "Shenandoah". Get those two together and you will be well on your way.
Best,
Gerald Menke |
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Joachim Kettner
From:
Germany
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Posted 16 Sep 2009 8:46 am
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| If you are on ( for instance ) fret three ( G ) without pedals, the root is on the 8th string. When you play A- minor pressing pedals B+ C, it is useful to know that the root for this is the 7th string. |
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Phil Halton
From:
Holyoke, Massachusetts, USA
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Posted 16 Sep 2009 9:53 am Re: Learning the BC Pedals
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Hi Thomas,
One way to look at the BC pedals is as alternate positions for the AB pedals
Example, grip 4 5 6 with no pedals at fret 8 is the identical note stack as grip 3 4 5 with AB pedals at fret 3. Add BC pedals to grip 4 5 6 at fret 8, and it is the identical note stack as grip 3 4 5 with no pedals at fret 6.
So,
no peds on 4 5 6 = AB pedals on 3 4 5 5 frets back.
BC pedals on 4 5 6 = no pedals on 3 4 5, 2 frets back.
You can play the good old harmonized major scale normally played on 3 4 & 5 with AB pedals on 4 5 6 using the BC pedals--they're alternate (equivalent) positions.
Something I do alot is substitute grip 4 & 6 with BC pedals for Grip 3 & 5 two frets back. So, when you hit the roller bridge (run out of room to the left), you can move down thru the string grips, and BC on grip 4 & 6 gives you the next lower position normally found on grip 3 & 5. Then let off B&C on grip 4 & 6, and you've got another lower position normally found on grip 3 & 5--this time 5 frets back with AB pedals.
Hope this makes some sense--experiment with it and you'll see.
.
_________________
Disclaimer! I make no warranty on the manure I've been spreadin' around here. |
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Charles Davidson
From:
Phenix City Alabama, USA
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Posted 16 Sep 2009 11:24 am
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May be wrong but listening to some of the old West coast steelers from the 50's and 60's,seems they used the B and C pedals a lot more than they were using on the East coast.were two different styles. YOU BETCHA, DYK?BC.
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Hard headed, opinionated old geezer. BAMA CHARLIE. GOD BLESS AMERICA. ANIMAL RIGHTS ACTIVIST. SUPPORT LIVE MUSIC ! |
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Larry Rafferty
From:
Ballston Spa, NY
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Posted 16 Sep 2009 12:07 pm
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In 1996 Doug Beaumier put out a great book teaching the use of the B & C Pedals, which included a play along sound track. It had scales, chords, and Tom Brumley licks, as well as complete songs (Bye Bye Love, Together Again) that were played using only the B & C pedals. Doug is a member of this forum. It might be worth contacting him to see if he still offers the course.
_________________
Mullen D-10 8x5; Sho-Bud Super Pro D10 8x6; PedalMaster 5 Star SD-10 3x5; Dekley D-10 8x4;
Sho-Bud S-10 3x1; Fender Lap/Floor Steel; Peavey Power Slide; Supro Lap Steel; Peavey Nashville 400;
pair of Peavey Vegas 400's; Peavey NV112; Webb 614E with matching extension cabinet; Fender Twin Reverb and 3 cats.
They laughed when I sat down to play, cause' somebody pulled my chair away... |
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David Nugent
From:
Gum Spring, Va.
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Posted 16 Sep 2009 2:04 pm B&C Pedals
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| Listen to as much John Hughey material as you can locate, both his early work with Conway Twitty and later with Vince Gill. John knew how to utilize this pedal combination to its fullest. The instrumental break to the Vince Gill tune, "Look At Us" is a prime example, it features extensive use of the "B and C" pedals and is an absolute classic. |
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Jim Robbins
From:
Ontario, Canada
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Posted 16 Sep 2009 4:26 pm
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One use of the C pedal is to fake an F#-G# raise if you don't have it -- start 2 frets below open position with C down and gradually take your foot off while you slide up to open position, playing on strings 3,4,5 and/or 6. E.g. on an A chord, start at the 3rd fret with C down & ease on up while letting the pedal off.
Another B-C combo is a harmonized major pentatonic lick like the intro to "Streets of Baltimore" (or the first five notes of the tune "Every little breeze seems to whisper Louise"): start on strings 5&6 open, then B & C, then strings 4 & 5 open, then B&C & finally strings 3 & 4 open. (Disclaimer: the lower line is not strictly pentatonic & that Streets of Baltimore intro is probably not exact.) |
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Larry Robertson
From:
Denver, Colorado, USA
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Posted 16 Sep 2009 5:15 pm Correction to the 2 minor post
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The B & C do give a 2 minor at the no pedal bar position, but a previous post on this thread said "naturally 2 frets above this is a 4 minor." Incorrect. 2 frets above a 2 minor is a 3 minor. The 4 minor is 3 frets above the no pedals & 2 minor bar position. Example Fret 3 no pedal=G; Fret 3 pedals B & C=2 minor A minor (root is on the 7th string A); 2 frets above that (fret 5)= 3 minor B minor; 3 frets above the 3rd fret is fret 6, 4 minor=C minor.
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Website: www.Music2myEars.net
MSA D-10, Carter U12, Fessy SDU-12,Emmons P/P D-10, Emmons P/P U-12,Emmons S-10 ShoBud SuperPro, Lap steel, keyboards, 6-string Guitars.. too many |
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Joey Ace
From:
Hamilton, Ontario, Canada
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Posted 16 Sep 2009 5:18 pm It was a test. You passed. :)
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Larry, you are correct. Just a a typo. 
I'll correct it. Thanks.
The 4 chord is usually a Major, anyway. |
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J Fletcher
From:
London,Ont,Canada
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Posted 17 Sep 2009 4:05 am
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I fall into the category of players that hardly ever use the "C" pedal. Over the course of four sets, I might use it in three or four songs.
One use I have found for it though, is raising the high "B" string, while leaving the low "B" unraised. Sometimes I want that raised note for a chord...Jerry |
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Clete Ritta
From:
San Antonio, Texas
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Posted 17 Sep 2009 12:36 pm
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One of my favorite uses of the BC combo is for double stop 6th runs on 3 and 5 and 4 and 6. Figure out ascending and descending runs in one position. Then tie them to the same positions a 4th and 5th up or down the neck. Find the in-between positions to move up and down the neck on one pair of strings.
This is similar to learning the double stop 3rds in one position (vertical run), and then using only two strings up the neck (horizontal run).
Clete |
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bill dearmore
From:
Belton,Tx.,USA
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Posted 17 Sep 2009 6:24 pm
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| One of my favorite uses for the BC pedal combo involves lowering the E's while engaging B&C. Strings 10,8,6,5,and 4. Big pretty 7/9-5 chord, or the end of "Night Life". I think most folks play it in "D" so the D7/9-5 would lye on the 3rd fret. Get your split tuners working... |
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john widgren
From:
Wilton CT
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Posted 17 Sep 2009 6:45 pm B and C
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Think about how you came to your present understanding of the way A and B work: Repetition, analysis, and experimentation.
Now when you practice at home, physically remove the A pedal from your guitar. Use the same methods to learn B and C that you used on A and B.
Practice single note melodies, runs, scales,even random notes... then harmonize them. Play with tracks, whatever, but don't install the A pedal until it's play for pay time.
That will get you up and running faster than you think.
_________________
Steel Guitar Services:
Live performance and recording. Instruments, repairs and lessons. Fresh bait/discount sushi.
(203) 858-8498
widcj@hotmail.com |
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Mark Treepaz
From:
Hamburg, New York USA
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Posted 18 Sep 2009 5:35 am
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After playing PSG for only 3 years now, I too hadn't found much of the "niche" for using the BC pedals much, other than an ocassional minor. After reading this thread, I printed it out along with the links that were posted, went home and started experimenting with it for a couple hours. Well, the lightbulb finally went off and I now have found a LOT of uses for the BC pedals.  I spent a good four hours on it last night. OK. NOW I get it!... 
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Sho-Bud LDG, Gretsch Syncromatic Lap Steel, Fender Steel King amp, Bach Stradivarious 37 Trumpet, Getzen Eterna Flugelhorn, 68 Fender Precision Bass |
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Don Drummer
From:
West Virginia, USA
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Posted 18 Sep 2009 6:10 am go fourth and steal...
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| Thomas, when your strings are really dead change only the 4th string. Play the BC combinations mentioned in earlier posts. IMHO this helps you focus on the sounds you have been missing using only AB pedals. Don D. |
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James Morehead
From:
Prague, Oklahoma, USA - R.I.P.
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Posted 19 Sep 2009 4:36 am Re: Learning the BC Pedals
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| Phil Halton wrote: |
Hi Thomas,
One way to look at the BC pedals is as alternate positions for the AB pedals
Example, grip 4 5 6 with no pedals at fret 8 is the identical note stack as grip 3 4 5 with AB pedals at fret 3. Add BC pedals to grip 4 5 6 at fret 8, and it is the identical note stack as grip 3 4 5 with no pedals at fret 6.
So,
no peds on 4 5 6 = AB pedals on 3 4 5 5 frets back.
BC pedals on 4 5 6 = no pedals on 3 4 5, 2 frets back.
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I have to lower my 4th string a half step to make this work on the 2 frets back position on 3,4,5 grip. Am I the only one? |
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Phil Halton
From:
Holyoke, Massachusetts, USA
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Posted 19 Sep 2009 8:23 am Re: Learning the BC Pedals
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James, You're right--a minor oversight on my part. I guess because I usually only play strings 3 & 5 or 4 & 6.
_________________
Disclaimer! I make no warranty on the manure I've been spreadin' around here. |
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James Morehead
From:
Prague, Oklahoma, USA - R.I.P.
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Posted 19 Sep 2009 8:28 am
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Awe, I thought I was crazier than what I really am.  |
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Phil Halton
From:
Holyoke, Massachusetts, USA
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Posted 19 Sep 2009 1:32 pm
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Nope! Sorry! Unless, there's something else you want to tell us? Any furry little friends--stuff like that?
_________________
Disclaimer! I make no warranty on the manure I've been spreadin' around here. |
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James Morehead
From:
Prague, Oklahoma, USA - R.I.P.
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Posted 19 Sep 2009 4:13 pm
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| Phil Halton wrote: |
Nope! Sorry! Unless, there's something else you want to tell us? Any furry little friends--stuff like that?
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Aweeee, you see 'em too, huh?? Glad I ain't the only one.  |
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Pete Burak
From:
Portland, OR USA
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Posted 20 Sep 2009 5:13 pm Re: B and C
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| john widgren wrote: |
Now when you practice at home, physically remove the A pedal from your guitar. |
I like this tip because, as long as you don't hit the 4th string, the A pedal and C pedal do the same exact thing on the upper strings.
On strings 3-6 for example, you can play passages of what would be thought of as A+B stuff, using the B+C, as long as you don't hit the 4th string.
If you know you have a C pedal lick coming, you can switch to B+C and lead up to it with standard A+B licks (using B+C), and your foot is already in place when you get to the classic C pedal lick.
Funn Stuff!
pb |
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Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 20 Sep 2009 8:38 pm
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It's funny that some players only see the C pedal as a chord pedal. I use this pedal (mostly with the B pedal) for a whole truckload of licks and melody work. In the bands I play with, I probably use the C pedal in at least 1 out of every 3 or 4 songs. You'd be astounded at how much of what you hear on record was played with the C pedal.
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Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 54 years and still counting. |
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