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Topic: B-Bb on RKL ...bad idea? |
John Allison
From:
Austin, Texas, USA
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Posted 23 Aug 2009 10:11 am |
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My B-Bb change is currently on the (seemingly very standard) LKV and my G's is on the RKL. I think I'd like to switch them, but will I be upsetting the order of the universe if I do?
Also I'd like to pull the 7 string F# up to G instead of dropping the G#. Is that a reasonable thing to do?
Any opinions appreciated.
Thanks
J A
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John Allison
Allison Stringed Instruments
Austin, Texas
www.allisonguitars.com |
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Tom Campbell
From:
Houston, Texas, USA
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Posted 23 Aug 2009 11:25 am
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John
Also "very standard" is raising your F# to G on your LKV. Gives a nice Dom 7th chord when A/B pedals are also engaged.
I have B to Bb on my RKR, works out very well. Other will disagree...you must try it for yourself. If you don't like it, change it back. The key word here is "YOU". |
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Jerry Overstreet
From:
Louisville Ky
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Posted 23 Aug 2009 11:30 am
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| I used it on RKL for a while and liked it really well. In light of all the other things I wanted to do, I reluctanly moved it to LKV as a compromise for the total configuration. |
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John Polstra
From:
Lopez Island, WA, USA
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Posted 23 Aug 2009 5:51 pm
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John, my uni is exactly as you describe. LKV raises strings 1 and 7 to G, and RKL lowers string 5 to Bb. It works out great. I (personally) only use the F#->G raise when pedals A and B are down, so that change is perfect for the vertical.
John |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 23 Aug 2009 7:09 pm
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| Quote: |
| I think I'd like to switch them, but will I be upsetting the order of the universe if I do? |
It all depends on how much you have played your current copedent. If you've been using it for many years, you'll make a lot of mistakes when you change it. These won't be tentative mistakes that you can back off with the volume pedal, either. They'll be loud wrong notes that you play with extreme confidence because you've made that move successfully thousands of times in the past.
Technically, what you describe makes good musical sense. But remember that "the order of the universe" is in the synapses of your brain. Sometimes it's best to leave well enough alone.
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-𝕓𝕆𝕓- (admin) - Robert P. Lee - Recordings - Breathe - D6th - Video |
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John Allison
From:
Austin, Texas, USA
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Posted 23 Aug 2009 8:01 pm
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Bob, this is one instance where my ignorance is definitely bliss. I've only been playing pedal steel for a few months and the instrument with this copedent is very new to me. I only had 3 levers before, so I'm just warming up to these new changes.
I did some changing around this evening and have been playing on it a little. Just lifting my heel from the A/B position to get the Dom7th definitely works easier on that lever than lifting my whole leg to make the B change in the "open" position.
Thanks for all the good advice, guys.
J A
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John Allison
Allison Stringed Instruments
Austin, Texas
www.allisonguitars.com |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Michael Johnstone
From:
Sylmar,Ca. USA
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Posted 23 Aug 2009 10:42 pm
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| When ignorance is bliss - 'tis foolish to be wise... |
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Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
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Posted 24 Aug 2009 3:02 am
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I would have to add that I hate the X lever, I use often it but hate the physics of it all, but I don't know what else to do. It feels real awkward to raise an entire lg and I would put that 1/2 step drop somewhere else but at this time I am still looking for a home for a 6 string drop which I do not have.
Raise 1 Raise 2 Raise 7 RKL
Lower 8 LKR
Raise 8 LKL
Lower 5 X
Lower 2 lower 9 RLR
I really would like to add Lower 6 , but where ?
And I would be very happy to lower 5 somewhere else, but where ?
Do I need another Knee ? ( I mean the real one )
t |
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Dave Mudgett
From:
Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee
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Posted 24 Aug 2009 5:36 am
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For me, the X-lever (B=>Bb) should be on the opposite knee from the E-lever (E=>Eb) since I use them together a lot. I find various combinations of the A and/or B pedals plus combinations of the E and/or X levers useful.
So when I had the E-lever on LKR (Emmons-style), I had the X-lever on RKL, and it worked perfectly. But when I moved the E-lever to RKL (Franklin-style), I moved the X-lever to the left knee. Either LKR or LKV (if it's on the guitar) work OK for Emmons ABC pedal setup. Ultimately, I put it on LKV, and used LKR for 6th-string G#=>F#. |
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Roger Rettig
From:
Naples, FL
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Posted 24 Aug 2009 8:15 am
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I agree with Dave - it's on RKL for me because I use the 5/10th 'lower' in conjunction with my 4/8th knee'levers a lot. Having the 5/10th 'lower' on the LKV would make my life even harder than it is already... 
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Roger Rettig: Emmons D10, B-bender Teles and Martins - and, at last, a Gibson Super 400!
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Bob Hoffnar
From:
Austin, Tx
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Posted 24 Aug 2009 9:30 am
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John,
I have my B to Bb on my RKL. Its a great and important change for me. I only lower the 5th string though.
Don't be a stranger !
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Bob |
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Brint Hannay
From:
Maryland, USA
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Posted 24 Aug 2009 9:53 am
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| b0b wrote: |
| Quote: |
| I think I'd like to switch them, but will I be upsetting the order of the universe if I do? |
It all depends on how much you have played your current copedent. If you've been using it for many years, you'll make a lot of mistakes when you change it. These won't be tentative mistakes that you can back off with the volume pedal, either. They'll be loud wrong notes that you play with extreme confidence because you've made that move successfully thousands of times in the past.
Technically, what you describe makes good musical sense. But remember that "the order of the universe" is in the synapses of your brain. Sometimes it's best to leave well enough alone. |
While John's not in that situation, I thought I'd post a different take on this, from Jimmie Crawford, in the book Pedal Steel Guitar--A Manual of Style, by Winnie Winston et al.:
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Q (Winnie Winston): I've always thought that it makes sense to put both the E raise and the E lower on the same knee, since you will never want to use them both at once. I notice that you have them on different knees.
J.C.: Let me explain it this way. If you had only four levers, well, it would make sense. But if you plan to go beyond those four, and you want to have the maximum number of combinations, then you have to do some shifting. That shouldn't scare anybody--we're all creatures of habit. If you find a new change that you like, and it means shifting everything around--well, it shouldn't bother you. All it will take is a two week period of adjusting to the new pedal set-up. I've built guitars for guys that I've played on for a few days right here in the shop. When I take mine out I find myself going for their changes. You'll always adjust to it--it's learning new habits. As you learn you begin to visualize the advantage of certain new pedal combinations. Like--if you see that you can get new combinations by putting the E to Eb on the right knee--then do it! The habit end shouldn't worry anyone. |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 24 Aug 2009 10:02 am
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Maybe Jimmy C. didn't drink as much as I did.  After I moved my E lowers from LKR to RKL, I was hitting the wrong lever at least a couple of times a night for years.
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-𝕓𝕆𝕓- (admin) - Robert P. Lee - Recordings - Breathe - D6th - Video |
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Lee Baucum
From:
McAllen, Texas (Extreme South) The Final Frontier
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Posted 24 Aug 2009 10:14 am
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As did I, b0b, as did I.
I'm glad I made the change, though. |
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Brint Hannay
From:
Maryland, USA
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Posted 24 Aug 2009 10:22 am
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| John Allison wrote: |
| Just lifting my heel from the A/B position to get the Dom7th definitely works easier on that lever than lifting my whole leg to make the B change in the "open" position. |
I, too, raise F# to G on LKV (I only raise 7, not 1, because I like the F# note on 1 as a melody note and the 13th of the dom7).
But if one finds it necessary to have a change on the vertical that needs to be used from the "open" position, it's best to put the toe on the floor right behind the pedals, for leverage. Just hoisting the leg with the foot off the ground is super-awkward, for me. |
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John Allison
From:
Austin, Texas, USA
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Posted 24 Aug 2009 2:44 pm
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| Brint Hannay wrote: |
But if one finds it necessary to have a change on the vertical that needs to be used from the "open" position, it's best to put the toe on the floor right behind the pedals, for leverage. Just hoisting the leg with the foot off the ground is super-awkward, for me. |
Since I'm just getting fairly locked in on my left foot position and am able to change from A/B to B/C without having to stick my head under the danged thing to see where my foot is, I'm reluctant to take my foot off of the pedals. The tip-toe worked great for getting the bend nice and smooth, but getting back to the inevitably proximate A/B move was awkward for me.
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John Allison
Allison Stringed Instruments
Austin, Texas
www.allisonguitars.com |
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Fred Glave
From:
McHenry, Illinois, USA
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Posted 25 Aug 2009 1:48 pm
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My new steel has B to Bb on LKV. My previous steel had the B lower on RKL. I'm alright with it now, but I think I would've rather kept it the way it was. Sometimes I use the B lower in open position with no pedals, and lifting my left leg up to make the change feels weird.
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Zum Encore, Zum Stage One, Fender 2000, Harlan Bros., Multi-Kord, |
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Billy Carr
From:
Seminary, Mississippi, USA (deceased)
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Posted 29 Aug 2009 2:55 pm psg
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| Process of elimination is what I call it. Whatever you use the most, keep. I make my guitar as easy to play as possible. Sometimes less is more, if you know where to look. Checkout Lloyd Greens set up with 4 knees and look what he's accomplished over the years. |
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