still wondering about theory, technique, and notation

Barry Hyman · From: upstate New York, USA

I'm an independent music teacher, and what I teach my students is technique and theory, so as to help them learn to play solid professional support parts and tasteful and graceful improvisational solos. Yet recently I have been ranting on this Forum about how students should be questioning teachers, and that not all the advice one hears about "good technique" is helpful or necessary. And I joined in joyfully on the thread that argued that traditional music notation is outdated, not usually necessary, and maybe even sometimes harmful. Plus, I have said about 500 times to various students over the years that most of the music theory I learned as a music major in college has been useless in the real world as a professional music performer, recording artist, and teacher.

So I am clearly conflicted about all this, and the passionate yet complex feelings in these recent posts make it clear that I am not alone. Where do we draw the line here? What is essential technique that every pedal steel guitarist needs to know, and what is overkill -- maybe slightly helpful, but not really necessary, and contributing to the overload and anxiety of students? What music theory really helps real musicians in the real world, and what can be jettisoned? And how essential is reading music or tablature, and when should they be taught to a music student?

I have my own opinions on these questions, as is obvious, but they mutate every day, and I am always finding out that I am wrong about something or that I didn't think before I opened my mouth. So what do you believe? What is good technique and where does it cross the line into obsession? What theory is needed to play in a band, and what is only needed if you want to compose 18th century fugues? And is reading music, necessary, helpful, irrelevant, or maybe even sometimes harmful? What do you think?

I know we have been around the block on these topics recently, but I thought that if the question was posed less confrontationally we might get more respondents, and/or responses that are more philosophical and less defensive and angry...
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I give music lessons on several different instruments in Cambridge, NY (between Bennington, VT and Albany, NY). But my true love is pedal steel. I've been obsessed with steel since 1972; don't know anything I'd rather talk about... www.barryhyman.com

Larry Bell · From: Englewood, Florida

My two cents

re: technique
If it sounds right it IS RIGHT.
Simple as that

If one's technique allows one to play at a sufficient tempo and feel appropriate to the music and the music sounds like it should, one becomes a musician. I have seen masterful steel guitarists who use widely divergent technique. There are some principles (e.g., never cover more strings with the bar than necessary) that seem to work well for most players. It wouldn't hurt to teach techniques that work for you with the understanding that there are no absolutes.

I can tell you in ten notes if a steel player 'can play'. (maybe less than ten)
It's a bit more challenging to figure out WHY he can't play, but maybe that's why I'm not a teacher

re: theory
I think that understanding chord and scale construction, while not absolutely critical for musical accomplishment and success, enhances understanding and communication and, therefore, is important in the musical education on ANY INSTRUMENT.

re: reading
I don't think sight reading is a critical skill, esp on pedal steel today. However, much of the world's wealth of musical heritage and pedagogy is in standard notation. Better to know how to decipher it than not.

re: tab
If it works for you and doesn't get in your way, it's fine.

FWIW, that's what I think.
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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
My CD's: 'I've Got Friends in COLD Places' - 'Pedal Steel Guitar'
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Larry Jamieson · From: Walton, NY USA

I also teach music. When starting younger children on guitar, I teach them to read music as well as playing chords. As they progress, I bring in theory, scales and progressions.
With steel guitar students, I do not teach notation because I do not read on the steel. I do teach scales, with a lot of stress on theory. If students know how scales are constructed, and learn about intervals, with a bit of ear training thrown in they can begin to figure out melodies on steel by themselves.
Chord structure and chord progressions are also vital to playing by ear. I start out teaching I, IV and V, and show students how to find these chords in different keys. I relate them to the major scale, so students understand where the "numbering system" comes from. Then I put on a CD with a 3 chord song and get the student to learn how to play it in different positions on the steel.
As the student progresses, I bring in minor chords, inversions, diminished and augmented chords, etc. I also teach the circle of fifths so students get a better grasp of how chords and keys relate to each other.
In terms of technique, I am a believer in using what works for the individual. I discuss right hand position, and pick blocking vs. palm blocking, although I am 98% a pick blocker...
These are what I feel are important things to teach. I show students how to read tab on steel if they want to work on such written instruction. But...some will get stuck on tab and never be able to do anything by ear if they use it only, all the time...
Larry J.

David Doggett · Posted 21 Aug 2009 8:43 pm

I would say forget teaching standard notation for learning steel. I read music on piano and sax, but not on steel, except very slowly in a few simple keys like C, F and G. People who learn to read on instruments like piano, horns, and orchestral strings usually start young and learn over a period of several years. They don't mind playing simple children's songs for awhile starting out. But most people who learn steel are adults, and most are already fairly accomplished guitar players. They are not going to learn note-by-note over years of study and practice. They want to learn some basic chords and scales for a few weeks or months at most, and then take it from there by ear.

In terms of theory, just some basics is all you need to get started. You need to know the degrees of the scale, so you can understand how chords are built and named. You need to know how to play simple three and four chord progressions in a few common keys. You need to know how to fit chords to melodies by ear. You need to know how to pick out melodies by ear. You need to know how to use the basic positions of the pedal steel to get the chords, scales and melodies. And you should be learning about all this basic theory as you are learning to play by ear. It is far more important to learn how the chords and scales sound, and how to find them by ear, than to learn how to read them off paper.

Reading tab is useful for going to tab sites or instructional materials to help you figure out how some licks and phrases are done. But all an instructor needs to do is explain how tab is written, and then let the student start learning how to read it on their own as they use it to learn a few classic things. I think it is bad for all the instruction to be in tab, or evey a big part of it. Far better for the student to learn to play by ear along with tracks and CDs. Then start playing by ear in a band.

You can teach all the above in a few weeks or months (depending on the student), and then they can play some basic simple stuff with some satisfaction. Then it's up to them to keep going beyond that to gradually improve their intonation and technique. After they've done that for a year or more, they will eventually benefit from advanced lessons from seasoned pros.

Reading standard notation on steel is a very advanced technique, and like with any other instrument takes years of study and constant practice. People who really want that should go for it. But it's just not something the average weekend warrior wants or needs.

Learning more advanced theory is also not something one needs for simple three and four chord country, blues and rock. But it can be very useful for jazz, progressive rock, classical and other more complicated forms of music. It is also useful for composing and song-writing.

So, bottom line for me is to keep the notation, tab and theory very simple and basic for beginners, and spend most of the time learning to play by ear. That's the quickest way to get them on the bandstand playing real music and progressing on their own.

Matthew Prouty · From: Warsaw, Poland

Barry,

I honestly enjoy your posts.

My question to you is, how can you say that what you have learned has been useless. I ask this because, perhaps there are various things you learned that enhance you ability to comprehend any number of musical things.

My example is this. One studies geometry, goes on to study Algebra, but uses almost nothing from that geometry that he learned. Was the geometry useless? I highly doubt it. I bet it opened the gates to understanding the algebra.

I have worked with so many musicians that have zero understanding of theory and they play great, but when you try to discuss where things could go, they draw a blank stare. You have to play it for them.

I think the full study of music is essential to forward progression, otherwise you are bound by what you hear in your ear and what you hear in your head.

Barry Hyman · From: upstate New York, USA

I use and teach a lot of theory. But, to answer Matthew, I studied things like Gregorian Chant and Baroque fugue analysis/composition in school; none of my students has a big interest in that stuff. It might have expanded me as a musician -- definitely did, now I think about it, but I don't use it much and don't teach it at all.

The theory I teach is the usual scales, modes, chord scales, and chord theory, but also a lot of blues theory -- for example I make distictions between seven different kinds of blues scales -- pentatonic blues, minor blues, dorian blues, harmonic minor blues, "classic" blues, country blues/bluegrass, and jazzy blues. That's a lot of theory to detail, maybe more than David gets into, but it strikes me as incredibly relevant if you want to play the full spectrum of modern popular music. I sure use them all all the time...

I should mention that I almost never teach steel -- mostly guitar, bass, and basic keyboard. Many of my students would love to have a PSG but everybody around here is poor and nobody can even dream of owning one. But even with guitar students I don't use notation or tab, although I'll explain how to read them if a student asks.

As for technique, I'll wait on that one. Running out to a gig. What do you think? What do you use? What were you taught that was useful/useless? What do you think every PSG student needs to know? What would you teach if you were teaching?
_________________
I give music lessons on several different instruments in Cambridge, NY (between Bennington, VT and Albany, NY). But my true love is pedal steel. I've been obsessed with steel since 1972; don't know anything I'd rather talk about... www.barryhyman.com

David Mason · From: Cambridge, MD, USA

It depends entirely on what someone wants - the formulation of goals is really, really important to be either successful or happy with what you're spending time on. There's an important distinction to make between "sight-reading" as a professional technique and "reading" as an assistance to learning. We seem to generate some testiness in the gray mist, there.... Mr. Green

I don't have any desire (beyond the abstract) to sight-read on pedal steel, nor the time (and perseverance). I think there's like, four people on the entire planet who can do it? Whoa!

I don't think even they call it "sight"-reading.

However, reading and writing conventional, bugs-on-the-page staff music is crucial to me right now for some theory stuff I'm chasing - there would be no substitute. I'm glad it's in the toolbox. But what I'm writing to myself is just scratch-notes & experiments & exercises - I write all the pitches in the middle of the staff and scribble "up-octave" or an arrow instead of using the proper ledger lines, I scribble all over it, it's pencil.... Tab would be impossible, because I don't know whether it's a pedal, slant or even what string until I get to the note dictated by the musical need. This isn't even "music-reading" by a normal definition.

Your students will figure out pretty quick if you're offering them a program to get from their A to B to Z - or not. All my students want to be stars & boink the concomitant starlets, not read music in studio jobs. But looking back, I wish I had kept up my competent 13-year-old's sight-reading and worked towards writing film music.... I think a lot of it has to do with age, too. I get my guitar students playing music, first of all - noise out of the amp. But older musicians with some experience, who want to tackle some of the "heavier" music of the past, will find reading is essential.

I don't know here - are we talking about 16-year-old aspiring pedal steel students? It seems to me that most new steel guitarists are already experienced six-stringers who want more/bigger/tonier/complicate-my-life, baby. Maybe not.... If you want to tackle the jazz book, or get involved with theory as it pertains to creating new music, reading matters. If you pick up Paul Berliner's "Thinking in Jazz" or Lewis Porter's bio "Coltrane" there's no tab, man - they're treasure troves, accessible in one way only. They use words to explain concepts, but the notes are instrument-independent bugs. And when you've got your hands on a 13-year-old with that wonderful plastic malleable mind, it seems a shame to drop-kick them into the world a few years later, still unable to access books like that because they can't read.

How many people who learned to read music now wish they hadn't? How many who can't, wish they could.... it's like asking how many unhappy billionaires are really going to give away their money and work at McDonald's. Gee, I would if I was a billionaire... Rolling Eyes

Bobby Burns · From: Tennessee, USA

I think the absolute most important thing about any music, is does the sound do what you want it to do.
If a player can produce the sound they want, and control that sound to the degree needed, they are a player at the level they desire, that is what matters most. If you go to a teacher or not, learning to control the sound is the most important thing.
I have some students, who have no desire to learn to read, some who have no desire to ever improvise, some who don't care if they ever play anything that I didn't show them note for note. Some students want to learn theory, some don't.
Some of the ones who do want to learn to arrange harmonies and learn advanced chord inversions and such. Some of them just want to be able to talk smart to their more advanced music buddies. It really doesn't matter what you call it unless you are trying to tell someone else, and then it only matters if they understand theory also.
My favorite quote from an older guy witnessing a discussion between younger more educated sidemen,"Call it a Fred as long as it sounds good."

David Doggett · Posted 22 Aug 2009 8:00 am **Re: I like theory**

Ellis Miller · From: Cortez, Colorado, USA

Granted, tab works very well for putting most music to paper to help someone learn how to play it on a specific instrument, especially a PSG where very little, if any music is available in standard notation.

I think a case could be made for the advantages of using traditional notation for teaching theory. Inserting the caveat that I learned theory the traditional way. In my opinion, the picture would be more clear for showing traids, then adding the upper partials a third at a time, showing how leading tones and altered chords resolve etc etc.

Food for thought.
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Ellis Miller
Don't believe everything you think.
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