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Topic: Tribute Bands question |
Jim Cohen
From:
Philadelphia, PA
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Posted 23 Jul 2009 6:01 am |
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I'm amazed at how many "tribute bands" are making the rounds these days, playing good venues. I'm particularly surprised at those that cover artists who are still around and touring themselves, like the Stones, Alan Jackson, etc. I assume the venue pays the annual lump-sum statutory rates to BMI, ASCAP, etc. to have their songs performed at the venue, but what about the original artists? Do they get a cut of the action? After all, someone is out there impersonating them and making their living off the original artist's reputation, appearance, sounds, etc. Anybody here know how this works?
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www.JimCohen.com
www.RonstadtRevue.com
www.BeatsWalkin.com |
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Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
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Posted 23 Jul 2009 7:31 am
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I was just called to play for a Billy Joel tribute band on Guitar. At first it sounded really interesting and I thought it would be fun. Then I started listening to the songs on the 18 song set list, I even charted about half dozen and played them, Then I went to the Keyboard player's studio ( the imitation Billy Joel I guess)and played the half dozen tunes that I actually worked on. I gotta say this
BORING....
The only song I liked was NY State of Mind, it was fun to pull out all those chords and to play behind the Piano but the rest of them, it was like sticking a metal Dental pick in a Cavity.
I never made a commitment and left the door open either way, for them and for me. They asked me to play I turned it down, I just couldn't see me finding any way to play Jim Messina licks in Billy Joel songs !
The keyboard guy had all these synths connected with sequencing, I felt like I was playing along with the CD, the sequences were identical to the Billy Joel CD songs.
I guess tribute bands can be fun if the musicians are aligned with the music of which the tribute band is trying to tribulate...???   ( is that even a word) ?
The imitation Billy Joel guy was trying to tell me that the band is going to book out for $3000 a shot. Key word here is " trying"...So far all they had was a play for free showcase , they were good ( he was good ) but I am not sure there is room for a Tele picker in an imitation Piano Man band. |
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Jim Cohen
From:
Philadelphia, PA
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Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
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Posted 23 Jul 2009 7:49 am
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OK !
Well you got Rusty and Jimmy covered
Is there a Richie in the house ?
Will there be a tour ?
Do I need to find my Bell Bottoms ? |
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Jim Cohen
From:
Philadelphia, PA
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Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
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Posted 23 Jul 2009 8:13 am
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Well ok, but if I am going to be Jimmy I have to make plans to quit your band and join the Loggins and Messina tribute band shortly after you start the Poco tribute band.
Will I have to buy a Sailboat ?
Last edited by Tony Prior on 23 Jul 2009 8:40 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Jim Cohen
From:
Philadelphia, PA
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Posted 23 Jul 2009 8:16 am
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Oh, okay, I get it. But now you're gonna hafta find a Kenny Loggins and I'm gonna hafta find a Paul Cotton and then our drummer is gonna hafta... hey wait a minute! Does he really hafta do that?? That's taking this tribute thing a little too far, doncha think? 
Oh. and then Timmy will get a gig with an Eagles tribute band, and Richie will be born again...
Starting to feel like Groundhog Day. 
_________________
www.JimCohen.com
www.RonstadtRevue.com
www.BeatsWalkin.com |
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Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
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Posted 23 Jul 2009 8:39 am
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Does one of us need to be Bill Murray now !!
good grief |
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Jim Cohen
From:
Philadelphia, PA
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Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
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Posted 23 Jul 2009 8:57 am
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ok back to the topic, I think it is the same as any band that plays out, if clubs or venues are paying a flat rate royalty fee for live performances than it would seem that the tributie gets his regular share of whatever the live performance pie is.
Quite frankly I play in a tribute band, we give tribute to Merle, Waylon, Brad, Johnny, Chuck, Glenn and Don, Dwight and a countless slew of others that are worthy of tribute.
I can't imagine playing 18 Billy Joel songs in a row and making people happy about it !
t |
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Jim Cohen
From:
Philadelphia, PA
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Posted 23 Jul 2009 9:01 am
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Well, it seems to me to be one thing to just pay the royalties for playing their songs, but quite another to promote yourself as "Hotel California - The EAGLES Tribute Band" and have everybody dress up like the Eagles, use the exact same equipment, play their music note-for-note, etc., etc. You are actually making money not just by playing their songs but by impersonation. Last night, I saw a guy who books himself as an "Alan Jackson tribute performer". Dresses like Alan, sings like Alan, looks awfully like Alan (plastic surgery or just lucky?) and does the entire AJ thing for an hour nonstop. Now maybe that's just fine and there are no fees to be paid other than the usual ASCAP/BMI fees, but if that's the case, I guess I'm a bit surprised. Maybe it grows the demand for the real thing...
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www.JimCohen.com
www.RonstadtRevue.com
www.BeatsWalkin.com |
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Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
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Posted 23 Jul 2009 9:28 am
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| Jim Cohen wrote: |
| t Last night, I saw a guy who books himself as an "Alan Jackson tribute performer". Dresses like Alan, sings like Alan, looks awfully like Alan (plastic surgery or just lucky?) and does the entire AJ thing for an hour nonstop. |
Jim , think Elvis ! |
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Jim Cohen
From:
Philadelphia, PA
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Stu Schulman
From:
Ulster Park New Yawk (deceased)
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Posted 23 Jul 2009 10:16 am
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Jim,I'm not sure of the details but there is a Creedence Clearwater Revisited tribute band that will be playing at our state fair soon,they came up here a few years ago.The singer sounds more like Forgerty than Fogerty.I guess they have the original rhythm section and Elliot Easton from the Cars?
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Steeltronics Z-pickup,Desert Rose S-10 4+5,Desert Rose Keyless S-10 3+5... Mullen G2 S-10 3+5,Telonics 206 pickups,Telonics volume pedal.,Blanton SD -10,Emmons GS_10...Zirctone bar,Bill Groner Bar...any amp that isn't broken.Steel Seat.Com seats...Licking paint chips off of Chinese Toys since 1952. |
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Dave Mudgett
From:
Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee
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Posted 23 Jul 2009 11:09 am
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Um, Creedence Clearwater Revisited is 1/2 of the original Creedence Clearwater Revival (and a 2/3 majority of the surviving members), with players to cover the Fogartys. I guess I wouldn't exactly call that a tribute band.
As with all things legal, I imagine this could get pretty murky, which is probably one of the reasons I'm not a lawyer. I like arguing enough that many people have asked me why I didn't just do that, but that's probably the main reason why. Crisp logic appeals to me much more.
But you may find this post on the talkbass forum useful - particularly read "Music Attorney"'s response, where he talks about so-called "dramatic performance rights", which he argues are different than the usual blanket license for non-dramatic performance. Seems to me that this could be the biggest potential problem.
http://www.talkbass.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-350470.html
If you just google "dramatic performance rights", a bunch of interesting links come up, including this one from ASCAP and others:
http://www.ascap.com/licensing/termsdefined.html
http://community.lawyers.com/forums/t/23198.aspx
for example. I guess the question is whether or not a tribute band could be considered a dramatic performance or not, and I imagine that would depend on the specifics. For example, consider this snippet from the ASCAP page:
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| ASCAP members do not grant ASCAP the right to license dramatic performances of their works. While the line between dramatic and non dramatic is not clear and depends on the facts, a dramatic performance usually involves using the work to tell a story or as part of a story or plot. |
Ze plot sickens. |
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Joey Ace
From:
Hamilton, Ontario, Canada
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Posted 23 Jul 2009 11:50 am
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Good tribute bands are a giant step ahead of bar bands.
Better gigs, better hours (typically one long set), better crowds, and much better pay.
Tribute bands generally play the recorded songs, that the public knows, better than the original act. 
This is because they are recreating a moment in time, when the recording was made. The original band, usually being a creative force, has since moved on, and is doing the songs differently, and doing newer material.
The tribute band also has the advantage of putting together a set of "greatest hits", while the original act is often pushing the newer (lesser know) material.
I don't know of any that pay any royalties other than the standard BMI/ASCAP/ SOCAN (I'm in Canada) that a cover band (or their venue) would. I do know theater productions, such as "Always Patsy", pay performance fees, like any Play would.
The real band tolerates Tributes because they are a good marketing tool, keeping them in the public eye.
I saw a TV show where Gene Simmons said something similar concerning KISS tributes. He said he could shut them down in a minute legally, but there was no point. Tributes take no business away from their mentors. If anything they hype the fans to see the real concerts.
I'm in a good Tribute Band. We go out of our way to show great respect for the real guys, even post links on our site to nominate them for awards, and to their site and on-line store.
We would never create merchandise for sale that is a rip off of theirs. I admit our logo looks similar. That's part of the act. If they wanted us to change it they might have a case.
I admit it can be boring. The large festival stages are a lot of fun, but the same set, with little room for creativity isn't for everyone.
I keep involved in other (less lucrative, but artistically freer) projects to maintain what remains of my sanity. |
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Jim Peters
From:
St. Louis, Missouri, USA, R.I.P.
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Posted 23 Jul 2009 12:30 pm
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I won't pay to see any tribute band. Something about them I just don't get. JP
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Carter,PV,Fender |
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Joey Ace
From:
Hamilton, Ontario, Canada
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Posted 23 Jul 2009 12:36 pm
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I feel the same way, I suspect it's a "musician thing".
Luckily musicians are not the bulk of the public.
I did make an exception once, when "The Wholigans" were in town. Glad I did.
(they have a lot on YouTube now) |
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Rick Campbell
From:
Sneedville, TN, USA
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Posted 23 Jul 2009 12:51 pm
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I'm thinking about doing a tribute CD to myself. Anybody want to pre order or get on the waiting list? I'm not holding my breath. 
Could this make me go blind?
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Marc Friedland
From:
Fort Collins, CO
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Posted 23 Jul 2009 1:04 pm
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Hi Jim,
They played a couple a couple of your tunes today on the Steel Guitar Jam portion of the radio show on KRFC.
I haven’t kept in touch with him recently, but a friend of mine, Jim Riddick plays the part of Keith Richards with “Satisfaction” www.rollingstoneshow.com
I think he plays and looks the part extremely well. Don’t tell anyone, but he could have just as easily played in a Beatles tribute band. And when I played steel with him in the early 2000’s, he played guitar and sang Merle, George Strait, Alan Jackson, Brooks & Dunn, etc, and he did a real good job with those as well.
I notice on their website there’s a quote something to the effect –
“Not endorsed or affiliated with the Rolling Stones”
The next time I communicate with him I’ll try to remember to ask about the “royalties” issue, but I’m guessing he probably has no idea, and is just enjoying the steady music work and pay check.
Marc |
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Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
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Posted 23 Jul 2009 1:07 pm
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Let me again say, I did a short jam a week or two back with a Billy Joel Tribute start-up band , I was on guitar, the singer was good, he even kinda looked like Billy Joel, he played keys well, had all the sounds down .
but
They used purchased sequences for the keyboards with all the different effects and multiple Instrument sounds , good grief it sounded exactly like the CD...
what's wrong with that picture ? Live band playing professional sequences .
I said to the guy, he kinda laughed but I probably insulted him...
"Why don't you just play Billy Joel CD's at the gig" ? |
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Joey Ace
From:
Hamilton, Ontario, Canada
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Posted 23 Jul 2009 1:35 pm
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Again it's a musician thing.
I'm against canned tracks, but to the paying public it's just entertainment.
I'm proud to say my band does not use anything prerecorded, but I understand why it's done by some.
It's show biz. |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 23 Jul 2009 2:12 pm
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| Quote: |
| ...but what about the original artists? Do they get a cut of the action? After all, someone is out there impersonating them and making their living off the original artist's reputation, appearance, sounds, etc. |
No. Why should they? Admittedly, "sounds" are covered under regular copyright laws. But the "appearance (look), and reputation" stuff doesn't rate anything. (THANKKFULLY!) I'm quite sure Barack Obama doesn't get a royalty when any one of a hundred people impersonate him; same with Bush, Clinton, and everyone else back to Kennedy. People are going to mock, imitate, and make fun of you if you're famous enough. It goes with the territory, that's why they make big bucks...and I wouldn't be feelin' sorry for them. (They generally don't feel sorry for us.)
No, at some point, and despite some people's money-grubbing desires, common sense takes over (despite all the lawyers, too). Anyhow, if copying someone's appearance or using their "image" and reputation dictated you pay them a royalty, I think you'd be owing the estate of Groucho Marx, now...wouldn't you, Jimbo?  |
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Jim Cohen
From:
Philadelphia, PA
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Posted 23 Jul 2009 2:27 pm
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| Donny Hinson wrote: |
| ...if copying someone's appearance or using their "image" and reputation dictated you pay them a royalty, I think you'd be owing the estate of Groucho Marx, now...wouldn't you, Jimbo? |
You mean I can stop making those monthly payments??
_________________
www.JimCohen.com
www.RonstadtRevue.com
www.BeatsWalkin.com |
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Archie Nicol R.I.P.
From:
Ayrshire, Scotland
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Posted 23 Jul 2009 2:53 pm
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I went to see the Bootleg Beatles. Everything was going fine until the Bootleg Mark Chapman turned up.
Arch.
Oldies can be goodies. 
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I'm well behaved, so there! |
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