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Topic: For E9/B6 Universal Players Only |
b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 24 Jun 2009 9:41 pm |
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I know that everyone has their own little quirks. How close is this chart to your copedent? What do you do differently?
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-𝕓𝕆𝕓- (admin) - Robert P. Lee - Recordings - Breathe - D6th - Video
Last edited by b0b on 25 Jun 2009 8:26 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Ivan Funk
From:
Hamburg Pennsylvania, USA
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Posted 24 Jun 2009 10:08 pm
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Pretty similar. A few differences. I don't have your pedal 4 and I don't have any second string raises. I don't lower the low E either. I guess the quirks are often on any levers other than the E raises/lowers.
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Olli Haavisto
From:
Jarvenpaa,Finland
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Posted 25 Jun 2009 2:13 am
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Here`s mine:
The second LKV is missing from the chart, it raises the middle B to C.
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Olli Haavisto
Finland |
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Randy Koenen
From:
Grand Forks North Dakota, USA
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Posted 25 Jun 2009 5:03 am
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Looks pretty close but I lower my E's RKR like Jeff Newman did. It's easier for me to hold in to get the B6th. (I don't have a lock)
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1984 E9/B6 ZUM; Pre RP E9/B6 Mullen |
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Mike Perlowin
From:
Los Angeles CA
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Posted 25 Jun 2009 5:05 am
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Here is mine:
I tune the 2nd string to C# and raise it, and the B6 pedals are in a different order, partly because pedal 4 also works as an E9 pedal in conjunction with the C pedal, although it's not nearly as useful as I thought it would be.
By releasing the LKR and kicking in the RKR I have the equivalent of the B6 pedal that raises the 4th string and lowers the 8th a half step, as well as the all important missing D note on the E9. This also allows me to hit almost any combination of pedals without taking my foot off the volume pedal.
The wrist lever is very cool. I took a while to adjust to it, but it's extremely useful. However it does get in the way if I'm playing way up the neck, and sometimes it's necessary to fold it out of the way. Also, you can't chime while using it. Even so, I really like it. So do others who have tried my guitar. (So California steel guitar icon Blackie Taylor liked mine so much he got one for himself.)
_________________
Please visit my web site and Soundcloud page and listen to the music posted there.
http://www.mikeperlowin.com http://soundcloud.com/mike-perlowin |
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Bob Parins
From:
Brooklyn, New York, USA
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Posted 25 Jun 2009 8:16 am
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Hi Guys-
Mine is very similar to yours b0b, but on my boo-wah pedal I backed out the b-->c raise on the 9th string so that I get an open G# minor chord there instead of major. I wanted the low minor root and fifth in that position for some thumb-style travis stuff I've been working on. |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 25 Jun 2009 8:24 am
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| Randy Koenen wrote: |
| Looks pretty close but I lower my E's RKR like Jeff Newman did. It's easier for me to hold in to get the B6th. (I don't have a lock) |
As I recall, Jeff didn't have a LKR. Is that correct?
_________________
-𝕓𝕆𝕓- (admin) - Robert P. Lee - Recordings - Breathe - D6th - Video |
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David Doggett
From:
Bawl'mer, MD (formerly of MS, Nawluns, Gnashville, Knocksville, Lost Angeles, Bahsten. and Philly)
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Posted 25 Jun 2009 10:14 am
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Here is my S12 E9/B6 Universal copedent. I’ve labeled the B6 pedals according to the analogous traditional C6 pedals. It sticks close to the classic E9 and 6th neck tunings, with a few additional options.
| Tab: |
David Doggett’s E9/B6 Universal
LKL LKV LKR 0 A B C 8 5 6 7 RKL RKR
1 F# G/G# G#
2 D# E C# D/C#
3 G# A
4 E F F# F D#
5 B C# C# C#
6 G# A A#
7 F# G/G# E F
8 E F D F# D D#
9 B C# C
10 G# A A#
11 E F D# F
12 B C# G# C#
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Essentials:
• Most manufacturers’ stock uni copedents don’t extend the standard E9 raises to all the low strings. You miss half the fun of a uni if you don’t at least have the B pedal raise to A on string 10. That gives you the full IV (A) chord on the low strings and allows you to do I, IV Chuck Berry rhythm stuff down there. Equally important is the A pedal C# raise on string 12. It gives you the relative minor (C#m) root, which gives you the power chord down there for minor blues, rock and jazz. With over two octaves of pentatonic intervals, this is one of my favorite positions in blues, rock and jazz.
• If you also add the F raise on string 11, you can toggle between C#m and C# major; and it also gives you diminished (F lever alone) and augmented (F lever, A and B pedals) chords on the low strings.
Optional personal preferences:
• Some uni players put the E lower lever (that gives the B6 mode) on the left leg. But I think most uni players prefer that on the right knee so that the left leg is free to move over the B6 pedals.
• It has become almost standard on uni to add a C# lower on string 2 to the E-lower lever. This gives a scale note when that lever is used for G#m in E9 mode, and also gives a scale note in B6 mode and the equivalent of a D on top of C6.
• Country E9 players may prefer a 5th string lower to Bb on LKV. For blues, rock and jazz, I prefer a raise to G on strings 1 and 7, which gives the b7 with the A and B pedals down, and gives a b5 in the A pedal minor position. Putting a feel stop on the G and letting it raise up to G# is less important, but gives a unison G# in the open pedal position or the A-pedal minor position, and a M7 with the pedals down.
• Some uni players raise the 9th string (B) to get the D. I’ve tried both ways and much prefer to lower the 8th string to D. In B6 this duplicates the pedal 6 IV9 chord, which is the most used 6th neck change (equivalent to the A and B pedal IV change in E9). In E9 you almost never want both the D and E at the same time, but often want the B and D, and when you release the D back to E it harmonizes and doesn’t need to be blocked the way the 9th string D on 10-string E9 does. Some uni players both lower the E and raise the B to get the D two ways; but I don’t have any levers or pedals I want to give up for that second way, and I don’t miss it.
• Unis don’t come standard with the zero pedal to the left of the A pedal. If you order one new, I strongly recommend getting a zero pedal. Even if you don’t have anything definite to put there (such as the Franklin pedal), it is a good place to be able to experiment with stuff. If your uni doesn’t come with a zero pedal, it is a major undertaking to move all the changes over to make way for it later. However, some manufacturers leave a blank pedal spot there even if you don’t order a zero pedal, in which case adding it later is no problem. What I temporarily have on the zero pedal is something I copped from Dan Tyack, which gives a sort of Sacred Steeler all-E chord for sloppy frailing without hitting any out-of-chord strings.
• Most unis don’t have the C6 pedal 6. You can get that change on the lever that lowers 8th string E to D. But if you take your left leg away from the E9 levers to use the B6 pedals, you loose that important IV9 change, so it is nice to have it in its traditional place among the B6 pedals. On the other hand, without pedal 6, maybe you can reach all the B6 pedals from the E9 lever cluster. So that’s a toss up.
• On the C pedal I raise 8th string E to F#. I love the sound of that pull when going to that B and C pedal minor chord. In addition, that allows tuning that pedal stop as the root of that F#m chord, while tuning the F# on string 7 as the 5th of the B chord with open strings 1, 2, 5 and 7. This resolves an E9 tuning issue, but it makes that C pedal a bit stiff. |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 25 Jun 2009 10:23 am
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One thing really stands out. It appears, so far at least, that many (most?) U-12 players have eliminated the C6th P4 and moved P8 into that slot.
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-𝕓𝕆𝕓- (admin) - Robert P. Lee - Recordings - Breathe - D6th - Video |
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Larry Weaver
From:
Asheville, North Carolina, USA
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Posted 25 Jun 2009 10:32 am
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Here's mine. This setup will be going onto an SD U-12 Williams. Talked with Bill the other day and he's agreed to build a Universal with two pickups for me.
This came about as sort of a combination between Jeff Newman's setup and some excellent ideas from Larry Bell. I really, really like having what would be pedal 6 on the C6/B6 side on LKR. For me it was a really natural feeling move to let off on the RKL while activating the LKR. To me, it sort of gives the guitar more of a "one big tuning" feel instead of thinking strictly in terms of swapping between E9 and B6. When playing more 6th style tunes, I tend to locate my left foot between P4 and P5.
-Larry
Last edited by Larry Weaver on 25 Jun 2009 3:54 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Earnest Bovine
From:
Los Angeles CA USA
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Posted 25 Jun 2009 10:45 am
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Here is how I did the E strings when I played Uni.
I tuned it so that string 4 was a good E with both LKR and RKL.
This setup allows one more useful combination than on some other setups; namely string 4 = F and string 8 = D.
| Tab: |
LKL LKR RKL
F#
D# -D,--C#
G#
E +F -D# (E), +F
B
G#
F#
E +F -D# (E), --D
B
G#
E +F
B
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Jon Light
From:
Saugerties, NY
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Posted 25 Jun 2009 11:23 am
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This is my Fessenden 8 + 8.
A couple of things here could use explanation but I won't bore anyone or myself with it unless asked. |
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Ed Prosser
From:
Ohio, USA
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Posted 25 Jun 2009 11:43 am
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Hi b0b, I have the same setup on my Uni that you have, except my pedal 4 is your pedal 8.
Ed Prosser |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 25 Jun 2009 12:02 pm
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| Thanks for all of these responses. They are very informative. |
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Tom Campbell
From:
Houston, Texas, USA
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Posted 25 Jun 2009 1:25 pm
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Here's mine...sort of strange, but it works for me 
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Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 25 Jun 2009 2:34 pm
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| Quote: |
| Thanks for all of these responses. They are very informative |
Even for us D-10 players. |
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Mike Baldwin
From:
Watsonville, Ca. USA
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Posted 25 Jun 2009 3:01 pm U12 copedent
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| My U-12 Dekley has 7 pedals & 5 knee levers. I use Jeff Newmans setup staight out of his E9/B6 course |
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Mike Ester
From:
New Braunfels, Texas, USA
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Bob Simons
From:
Kansas City, Mo, USA
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Posted 26 Jun 2009 7:41 am
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Lowering E's...I notice that most of you lower the E's with the RKLeft.. I spend so much time with that change continuously engaged (along with various other "Newman Style" 4-8 pedals) that I put it on RKRight so I could simple flop my right leg out and rest it comfortable engaged while still easily operating the volume pedal.
Is there any particular reason I've missed why so many prefer to engage toward the center of the guitar instead of to the outside which seems so much more comfortable to me? (I've never played anything but a U-12 so I don't know if this practice simply derives from double neck techniques....)
_________________
Zumsteel U12 8-5, MSA M3 U12 9-7, MSA SS 10-string, 1930 National Resonophonic, Telonics Combo, Webb 614e, Fender Steel King, Mesa Boogie T-Verb.
Last edited by Bob Simons on 26 Jun 2009 7:44 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Tom Campbell
From:
Houston, Texas, USA
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Posted 26 Jun 2009 8:06 am
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Bob,
Maybe because most of us are "knock-kneed" 
Seriously, I think more pressure can be easily excreted by pushing inward from the ankle to the knee than outward...just my opinion, no medical fact here.
May have something as to how one's knee joints are made. |
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David Doggett
From:
Bawl'mer, MD (formerly of MS, Nawluns, Gnashville, Knocksville, Lost Angeles, Bahsten. and Philly)
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Posted 26 Jun 2009 10:46 am
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| I'm with Tom on this. It is much easier for me to squeeze in on RKL than to push out on RKR. But if for some people it is easier to push out, then that's the way they should do it. |
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David Doggett
From:
Bawl'mer, MD (formerly of MS, Nawluns, Gnashville, Knocksville, Lost Angeles, Bahsten. and Philly)
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Posted 26 Jun 2009 11:04 am
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b0b, one problem I have with your copedent at the top of the thread is having the 9th string D on RKR, the same knee as the E-lower lever. This means you can't use it in B6 mode to substitute for pedal 6 for the all-important IV9 chord (which is about as common as hitting the A and B pedals in E9). In my one-big-tuning approach, I do most of my B6 mode playing with just that one B6 change, without moving my left leg away from the E9 cluster. All the other B6 pedals give things that are available in E9 mode, and I hardly ever use them. In that situation it is essential to be able to hit the D lever with my left leg, while holding the E-lower lever for B6 mode with my right leg.
Come to think of it, that's another reason to have the E-lower lever squeezing in on RKL. If you are pushing out on RKR while squeezing in on LKR for the D, it is a very unnatural twisting move. If you simply squeeze in with both knees, that is a very natural stable move.
Last edited by David Doggett on 26 Jun 2009 11:07 am; edited 1 time in total |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Bas Kapitein
From:
Holland
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Posted 26 Jun 2009 11:46 am
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On my Sierra previously owned by Cowboy Eddie Long There was this 0-pedal with one pull only. I coud'nt figure it out untill I saw this tuning on the BMI-site. The p0+p1 (p1+p2 in this picture) pedals make B0B's p7 obsolete.
I haven'nt tried it yet because I use this p-0 as G#->G but because there is only one pull I d'ont use it that much |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 26 Jun 2009 12:09 pm
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| David Doggett wrote: |
| b0b, one problem I have with your copedent at the top of the thread is having the 9th string D on RKR, the same knee as the E-lower lever. This means you can't use it in B6 mode to substitute for pedal 6 for the all-important IV9 chord (which is about as common as hitting the A and B pedals in E9). |
Pedal 6 on C6th lowers the middle E a half-step. On B6th it would be D# to D.
The RKR on my chart is a fairly common change. It raises the B to D for those E9th licks that require the D E F# sequence. You wouldn't normally use the D string with the E lowered to D#.
I do agree that using LKR to lower the 8th string E to D is a good substitute for p6. The LKR on my chart (raising the first 2 strings) is a bit of a straw man. It's fairly common on E9th, though.
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-𝕓𝕆𝕓- (admin) - Robert P. Lee - Recordings - Breathe - D6th - Video |
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