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Topic: What to do with the bar when playing open position? |
John Polstra
From:
Lopez Island, WA, USA
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Posted 24 Jun 2009 2:45 pm |
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Say you're in the key of E and you want to move from the A+B position on the 7th fret down to the open position. Do you slide the bar down onto the roller nut, or do you lift the bar? I am not talking about single note stuff where you can tilt the bar. Sliding it seems right to me (as a relative beginner), but my PSG is keyless and there is not much room down there. It's hard to do it without crashing the bar into the tuning levers that anchor the strings.
John |
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Twayn Williams
From:
Portland, OR
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Posted 24 Jun 2009 2:55 pm Re: What to do with the bar when playing open position?
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| John Polstra wrote: |
| Say you're in the key of E and you want to move from the A+B position on the 7th fret down to the open position. |
From one relative beginner to another, I don't use the open strings  In the scenario you post, I'd go from 7th fret A+B to 3th fret A+F (the E raise lever.)
If I had to play the E open, I'd just slide over the nut.
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Primitive Utility Steel |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 24 Jun 2009 3:03 pm
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I lift the bar just before it reaches the nut. The outside edge of my hand is on the strings right behind the rollers for leverage.
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David Doggett
From:
Bawl'mer, MD (formerly of MS, Nawluns, Gnashville, Knocksville, Lost Angeles, Bahsten. and Philly)
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Posted 24 Jun 2009 3:24 pm
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| It depends on the phrasing. If you want a smooth gliss into and out of the open E (or any other chord you get open at the nut), then you need to slide right over the nut and slide back out. You should be able to do that when required. Other times you can lift the bar as b0b suggests. So there's no single answer to this. It depends on the music. Ideally you should be able to treat the nut just like any other fret. The drawbacks are you have no vibrato there or pitch correction. |
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Alan Brookes
From:
Brummy living in Southern California
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Posted 24 Jun 2009 4:31 pm
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You've come up against a design flaw in the pedal steel, which most people notice eventually. Short of designing your own instrument and having it custom made, it's a matter of living with it, as described by b0b and Dave.  |
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Jonathan Cullifer
From:
Gallatin, TN
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Posted 24 Jun 2009 6:10 pm
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| With practice, the bar lifting technique works well and is pretty smooth. For me, I don't like sliding all the way off the end because I don't want to damage my bar on the nut, and as everyone knows, the closer to the nut you get, the harder you have to press the bar to keep strings from buzzing (short of gauged roller anyway). |
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Chris LeDrew
From:
Canada
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Posted 24 Jun 2009 6:28 pm
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In a perfect world you should be able to lift your bar at will, at any time or in any position. It takes practice, but after it while it becomes second nature. A lot of players use just the tip of the bar when doing pull-offs in the first few frets.
Sometimes at a gig I just keep the bar in my hand all night, even between sets, so it becomes almost part of my hand. After a while, it becomes so comfortable there that you are able to manipulate it any way you want while you're playing. And it makes for a strong left hook should a brawl break out. 
_________________
Jackson Steel Guitars
Web: www.chrisledrew.com |
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Jeff Hyman
From:
West Virginia, USA
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Posted 24 Jun 2009 6:45 pm
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| If a long open E (as in many paul jones) I simply hold the bar as it rests on the LDG Pad. I sometimes rub my nose while picking on the open neck. Folks in the crowd are sometimes amused. If its a quick open E then I would hold the bar just above the nuts. I always fear of string breakage in this position. |
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Chris LeDrew
From:
Canada
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Posted 24 Jun 2009 7:03 pm
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| Jeff Hyman wrote: |
| I sometimes rub my nose while picking on the open neck. Folks in the crowd are sometimes amused. |
Sometimes I chug a beer with my left hand when playing open, but only the band usually finds it funny. The audience just thinks I'm playing the keyboard with one hand, like that guy in Duran Duran.
_________________
Jackson Steel Guitars
Web: www.chrisledrew.com |
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Chris LeDrew
From:
Canada
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Posted 24 Jun 2009 7:04 pm
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| Jeff Hyman wrote: |
| If its a quick open E then I would hold the bar just above the nuts. I always fear of string breakage in this position. |
_________________
Jackson Steel Guitars
Web: www.chrisledrew.com |
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Joe Smith
From:
Charlotte, NC, USA
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Posted 24 Jun 2009 7:09 pm
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| I slide the bar over the rollers. I don't think there is a right or wrong way. This is just how I do it. |
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David Doggett
From:
Bawl'mer, MD (formerly of MS, Nawluns, Gnashville, Knocksville, Lost Angeles, Bahsten. and Philly)
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Posted 24 Jun 2009 8:34 pm
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| Jonathan Cullifer wrote: |
| For me, I don't like sliding all the way off the end because I don't want to damage my bar on the nut, and as everyone knows, the closer to the nut you get, the harder you have to press the bar to keep strings from buzzing (short of gauged roller anyway). |
This is why I only buy pedal steels with gauged nut rollers. I can slide smoothly past the nut and back without hitting anything or having string buzz. All my pedal steels are keyed. You really don't need a lot of free space behind the nut - the first and last keys are pretty close. But if keyless pedal steels don't have enough free space behind the nut, maybe this is a design flaw. I would think they could have enough space there while still maintaining the supposed advantages of keyless. |
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Bob Blair
From:
Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
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Posted 25 Jun 2009 5:08 am
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| Chris, after you chug the beer with your free hand you can do the old trick I learned from watching Pete Grant and play with the base of the bottle instead of your bar for a bit - maybe they'd notice that! |
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Ken Metcalf
From:
San Antonio Texas USA
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Posted 25 Jun 2009 7:05 am
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The main thing is to hold it up and show it to the audience.
Then wave it around like you are riding a wild bull at the Rodeo and holler YEEE HAW
Don't think it hasn't happened in Austin AND ! San Antone.
_________________
MSA 12 String E9th/B6th Universal.
Little Walter PF-89.
Bunch of stomp boxes |
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Bill Duncan
From:
Lenoir, North Carolina, USA
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Posted 25 Jun 2009 7:26 am
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I think gauged roller nuts are a bit over rated. I slide right off the nut and right back over on my '77 MSA and never a jingle. I could be wrong but I don't believe it has gauged rollers.
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You can observe a lot just by looking |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 25 Jun 2009 7:45 am
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Guaged rollers are good for 12 or more strings. For 10 or less, I don't think they're really necessary. As far as the slide down, you should be able to do that without touching the nut. Just lift below the 1st fret, and no one will ever notice. 
(Of course, that assumes you want the gliss. If you can't lift the bar cleanly, you need more seat time doing same.) |
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John Polstra
From:
Lopez Island, WA, USA
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Posted 25 Jun 2009 5:51 pm Re: What to do with the bar when playing open position?
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| Twayn Williams wrote: |
From one relative beginner to another, I don't use the open strings In the scenario you post, I'd go from 7th fret A+B to 3th fret A+F (the E raise lever.)
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Heh -- I must be more of a relative beginner than you, because I try to avoid both open strings and A+F. Well, actually I'm getting better with A+F now. It always sounded horrible to me, but I've finally got my tuning tweaked to the point where it doesn't sound much worse than anything else I do.
John |
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John Polstra
From:
Lopez Island, WA, USA
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Posted 25 Jun 2009 6:02 pm
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Thanks for the tips, everybody. I do have room for the bar on top of the rollers, but just barely:
B0b's suggestion to lift the bar just before the rollers is working out pretty well after some practice. I haven't advanced to Ken's "YEE HAW" method yet, but I hope to eventually.
John |
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