Learning Problem

Glen Derksen · From: Alberta, Canada

I've been discouraged from my steel studies because my lessons have been based on a lot of single note stuff such as Red River Valley, Grandfather's Clock, Wreck of Old 97, Bile Dem Cabbage Down etc. I'm quoting these tunes from DeWitt Scott's instruction book. I believe that this man is an excellent teacher, but I find these single note tunes, which I believe are geared towards learning the notes, incredibly BORING!

I wouldn't complain about this if I wasn't already an advanced lead guitar player who is used to more challenging and exciting stuff. I really want to get good at steel, so, what should do, should I just bite the bullet and take it like good (but bad tasting) medicine, or should I go ahead and try to learn the favorite stuff of my favorite players? Advice would be appreciated. Thanks.

I just want to add that I have an uncanny ability to figure out more multiple string things out on the steel by ear and in my mind. I have a very accute ear/brain combination.

Charles Davidson · From: Phenix City Alabama, USA

Glen,Try this,if you have a basic knowledge of the fretboard,and IF you have a good an ear as you say,get some steel CD'S play along with them and see what happens. might work. DYK?BC.
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Kevin Hatton · From: Buffalo, N.Y.

Learn harmonized melodies. Order Emmons Guitar Co.Steve Palousek DVD courses 1,2,3. They are built on cumulative knowledge. The only courses that I know are.

james sluder · From: Tennessee, USA

Hi Glenn !
I am in the same boat as your in ! I played 6 string lead off & on for about 30 years,,also play electric bass & some piano ! I always loved psg & was playing psg runs on 6 string ! I finally got a psg & a book with a lot of tab, that made no sence to me at all ! So i finally just started listning to songs,,intros,,fills,,breaks,& endings and hunting them on my psg ! And with the vidios on u-tube,,free lessons by Joe Marcus & Micky Adams & some others i started putting it together by ear & now after about 6 months of just doing that i can sit in with any local bands & hold my own! It might not be like it was on recorder but i get the job done !! My idea is if you can't hear it & fell it you cannot play it!

Im sure that when you started playing lead guitar you learned most of it by listen,,hunt,,find & play !
as i did !! So just do the same with psg ! You can get some tracks to play along with that work pretty good !

Im sure a lot of psg players might not agree with my idea's ! But its just what works for me !!

So just hang in there,,since your already a 6 string lead player your half way there already !

Good luck my friend !!~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~JIM

Billy Tonnesen · From: R.I.P., Buena Park, California

You probably need a tutor or a mentor rather than a starting teacher. You have already developed an "Ear" for music and can figure out tunings and where the scales and melodies lie. Just practice trial and error until you find what you want.

Ned McIntosh · From: New South Wales, Australia

A steel lead break may involve lots of single-note runs, but the pedal-steel is the chord-inversion machine par excellence and I find I spend a great deal of my playing time looking for and playing chords, following the melody or working aruond it, perhaps playing a simple chord-grip then going to an inversion of the chord, or perhaps two, or even three, with the chord still sounding.

You can do a lot of backup playing chords, or two notes out of the three for a major chord, letting the ear of the listener add the missing note(s). String pairs that are good for this are 3&5 (as John Fabian says "a bit cutty"), 4&5, 5&6, 6&8, 5&8, 6&10 just to start with - 2 notes together, which can be pedalled for an effect or a chord-change.

Different grips=different voicings=different sounds. Use what you have learned on single-note stuff but with two or three strings and I think you'll regain your enthusiasm.

Playing the melody will rarely get you in musical trouble, but deviating from it whilst maintaining a harmonic relationship with the main melody can be useful, again using chords or two-note grips. Also, playing an octave away from the melody can be useful, single-string, two-note or three-note chords. All that is asked of you is that you be a good and true servant of the music. Add to it, but don't detract from it.

Then there are licks; pedal licks, lever licks, pedal and lever licks, pedal and bar-slide licks or combinations of all of these...which is something the steel really shines at like no other instrument. The ability to morph one chord into another on the fly and slide up - or down - a few frets, adding pedals or levers as you go, produces that distinctive sound which is one of the attractions of the instrument. You hear licks all the time in the classic country music, and every steel-player has some favourites. So, start learning some of the licks your favourite steel-players use. Begin by playing them the way they played them - it develops technique. Then start playing the licks your way - that develops your own personal style, and tone.

Licks are the grist for the mill when playing intros, turnarounds and endings, and quite a few steel solos can be cobbled together if you have enough licks in your bag to string together and play at a moment's notice. So, make up some intros using your licks, then make up some turnarounds and especially some endings that are not the archetypally classic (but now cliche'd) I-V pedal change. (That said, we all still do it because it works!) You'll start learning to co-ordinate levers, pedals and string-grips, your sound will be pleasing to you and you may stumble on something that sounds uniquely "Glen Derksen".

The single-string stuff you have learned is not harmful, but I agree it is rather like a child learning scales on the piano - you know there is more out there and you want to go after it. So, go looking for licks, two-note grips for unusual voicings, long bar-slides, try some John Hughey bar-shiver and venture up the neck into "Hugheyland" (somewhere beyond the 22nd fret, where the intonation is unforgiving and the tone unforgettable), learn a little west-coast style, learn to block well, learn some basic Nashville style sounds, give the B&C pedals a hammering on 3, 4 & 5 and 4, 5 & 6 and see what sounds you can get the steel to make. See what you can do with the pedal that raises your low G# to A and the lever that lowers the same string to F#...there are some nice licks using that combination.

In short, experiment! The worst that can happen is you'll sound bad...or break a string. You'll soon learn what sounds bad and you won't play it. On the way you'll also find a lot of stuff that sounds darn good!

Once you put all these different things together you're playing pedal-steel like a pro...and i'ts a fair bet you're also having a lot of fun.

Don't be discouraged. This instrument is full of secrets, and it yields them one by one, often when you least expect it or when you are not actively looking to find them. I guess that's part of its charm and why we are so addicted to the sound, sight and feel of steel!
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The steel guitar is a hard mistress. She will obsess you, bemuse and bewitch you. She will dash your hopes on what seems to be whim, only to tease you into renewing the relationship once more so she can do it to you all over again...and yet, if you somehow manage to touch her in that certain magic way, she will yield up a sound which has so much soul, raw emotion and heartfelt depth to it that she will pierce you to the very core of your being.

Brett Day · From: Pickens, SC

Glen, like Ned said, the steel guitar has so many secrets and it's a wonderful instrument. Do the best you can. The best thing to do is practice with whatever licks you're wantin' to learn-first take it slow and then when you feel confident, go a little faster. When I started playin' steel nine years ago, I always wondered how I'd be able to play licks that I've heard. I did it mainly by just listenin' and playin' along. A man from Texas named Tim McCasland said that the best thing to do when learnin' steel licks is to practice a lot. If you take it slow at first, it's a great way to come up with your own style of playin'. Do the best you can and never stop and another great technique is to familiarize yourself with the fretboard.

Brett

Glen Derksen · From: Alberta, Canada

Thanks for all the good advice, everyone, I find that very encouraging. I just might check out some of the other courses that were mentioned and a good tudor or mentor like Billy said. Like I said, DeWitt Scott is an excellent teacher, and I still recommend his book and cd to beginners. His book has a lot of good intermediate and advanced stuff as well, and I figure that maybe I could just go through his book randomly in order to make it more interesting and still practice the single note playing in small doses for note reading excercises.

For anyone who's interested, I wrote out some tab for 'Great Is Thy Faithfulness" posted Nov.3/08 in the Tablature section of the forum. That would be a good example of what I was able to figure out by ear.

Bobby Bowman · From: Cypress, Texas, USA, R.I.P.

If you are trying to learn more E-9, then by all means get the Buddy Emmons E-9 Chord Vocabulary corse. It's the best.
BB
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Walter Stettner · From: Vienna, Austria

I believe one of the best ways to get from single-note playing to chords and fuller chords is still the Winnie Winston book. I would highly recommend that.

Kind Regards, Walter
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Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

There are some excellent tapes and DVD's out there to learn from. Books are great for information, but not very good for actual technique. If you can't find a good teacher, invest in a few of the tapes and DVD's, and also spend a lot of time on youtube, where Mickey Adams and a few others have some good lessons.

Rick Winfield · From: Pickin' beneath the Palmettos

I have never taken any lessons, yet managed to be a lead guitar player in a 3 piece rock/blues band for many years. I've studied theory on my own, and on PSG, I studied a few "courses", to get the basics. I think the best thing is to evaluate your weaknesses, and work on them, while developing your "own style".
Also playing with "others", will quickly point out your deficiencies, as well as strenghts.
just my opinion. whatever works for whom
Rick

James Morehead · From: Prague, Oklahoma, USA - R.I.P.

George McLellan · From: Duluth, MN USA

Glen, if you live anywhere near Medicine Hat, look up Billy Jones. He's a supurb player and great person and dedicated to helping new steel players. There is an organisation there also that he could steer you onto.

Geo

Jim Peters · From: St. Louis, Missouri, USA, R.I.P.

Play along with every record you have, any genre. JP
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Bill Moore · From: Manchester, Michigan

I've known a couple of really good guitarists that wanted to learn the pedal steel, but just did not have the patience to start at the beginning and learn the basics first. You have to master some basic physical technique. With daily practice, that probably would take at least a few months. I mean learning to use the pedals and levers, the bar, picking and blocking. There is no shortcut. And you need to learn the correct techniques, learning bad habits will do you no good. So, you probably need a real teacher, one that can show you these things. I also recommend Jeff Newman's courses, if you can't find a local teacher. Don't be concerned with learning songs, learn the guitar and the skills to play it first. Accept the fact that it will take a LONG time to be a really good player. For what it's worth, I don't consider myself a really good player, even though I've done it for about 27 years. Good luck, be patient.
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Bob Hoffnar · From: Austin, Tx

Try playing whatever phrase or chord you have learned in at least 2 other places on the neck. Learn to do that with every lick/chord you know. Pedal bends an all.

Example:

C major sus lick

8th fret- root on the 8th string, B pedal in and out on the 6th st and 5th st

then the exact same notes on the 1st fret- root on 5th st, 4th st lever in and out and the 1st string

That stuff is everywhere on the steel.
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Leroy Riggs · From: Looney Tunes, R.I.P.

Glen, Dick Meis has a new DVD out that deals, in large part, with converting from guitar to steel. It is for Guitar Players Learning Steel (his words).

On his frontpage below, look for the first DVD listed on that page. Below it is a video that will introduce the DVD.

http://www.pedalsteelguitar.net/
.
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Glen Derksen · From: Alberta, Canada

Jerome Hawkes · From: Fayetteville, North Carolina, USA

well, A LOT of people are in the same boat you are, as most of us probably came from guitar, as i did.
what i found out is that you REALLY, i mean REALLY have to nail down your harmonized scales EVERYWHERE on the neck - most people know 2-3 of them but if you are familiar with tetrachords and use that method to build scales, it really puts you at an advantage in learning - you begin to find them everywhere as everything on the steel can move around with you, unlike a fixed fingering for guitarists.

here is a simple, yet VERY beneficial way to practice your harmony scales and open up the fingerboard:
when you are practicing harmonized scales, SAY aloud the degrees you are hitting, ie you could just say the scale degree, 1, 2, 3,... or add the 3rd aloud; 1&3, 2&4, 3&5...
the reason this is so important is that many times people KNOW a major scale, but they dont understand how each of these harmonies relates to the chord - you can get away with not knowing this on single string guitar (because they form mental shapes), but when you add those harmony notes, you have to know where you are leading the listener (or the band, or you). i have often said the art of pedal steel is the art of hearing 2 notes moving in and out of tension and resolution, and most guitar players are unaware of this as they think in boxes and patterns.

i would say if your ear is as developed as you say, and you dont have a need to learn to read standard notation, then i would skip the "mel bay method" and get down to playing what you want, nothing wrong with that
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David Mason · From: Cambridge, MD, USA

Same boat, here. 30 years of playing guitar, slide, and 12 years teaching guitar, before I got a pedal steel in 2001. I found I already knew how to learn an instrument, and the exercises I make up for myself attack my problems - of course. A good chord book - geared to your setup - is important.

AND - write your own chord book. Seriously. Use Excel or even Word to print up some 10 (string) X 13 (fret) cell charts, and fill 'em in. Any schoolteacher worth their chalk knows that the more neural pathways you run information through, the better it will stick & reinforce, so listen, watch and write.

I bought up a bunch of steel material, and except for the chord charts, I can get to what I want faster just figuring it out. And by asking questions here on the forum - this is an amazing site, there's nothing comparable in the underarm world.

I tend to work on the exact same things on steel that interest me on guitar. Currently I'm working up some jazz standards out of fakebooks (and listening), and I still go over classical violin melodies for technique and reading practice. For some odd reason, I can play these on six-string four, eight, sixteen times faster... Rolling Eyes

Figuring out what YOU want is half the battle, the rest is just time & concentration. And memory, ear, work, play, equipment, etc. Mr. Green

Play what you want - Red River Valley? How 'bout Whipping Post.... Autumn Leaves... all the notes are right there in front of you. I've handed my guitar students pages & pages of arduously-organized exercises designed to approach specific technique issues, and they stare at them a few seconds and say,

"But what's THE secret?"

Sigh... Crying or Very sad

Les Anderson · From: The Great White North

I am going to answer Glen from a completely different direction. It may seem a bit cold; however, if he has been playing lead electric for 30 years, why is it such a problem to find those same multi string chords or chord accompaniment to a melody on the steel guitar?

After 30 years, he must have more than a basic knowledge of chord harmony along with chord progressions, fills, bridges and lead ins.

When I started learning to play the steel, I started out cold with Cindy Cashdollars instruction material along with a few other tab charts. I was easily playing multi string chords and simple multi string melodies within six weeks of learning play my steel.

My main instruments at the time were the stand up and electric bass, along with chromatic harmonicas and acoustic guitars. I had being playing them for more than 40 years and they were a long way from a electric lead guitar.

Maybe more than a bit of going out on the proverbial limb and experimenting is the order of the day here.

How about putting those instruction books away for a spell and going after that fret board and strings and find out what's available on that steel in relation to your past guitar experience.
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Glen Derksen · From: Alberta, Canada

Whew! I think I'm having trouble explaining the situation accurately. I DO know Chord progressions in different positions, same as lead guitar, it's just that the pedal steel is a completey different and more complex animal than your basic six string. I mean, you have a completely different tuning, four more strings plus pedals and knee levers. It's going to take a lot of digging into. In order to get more understanding of what I have already learned, PLEASE go to the song in the Tablature section that I mentioned earlier.

Brint Hannay · From: Maryland, USA

Glen Derksen · From: Alberta, Canada

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