Why not pedal steel?

Nathan James · From: Sugar Grove, OH

I'm curious, on my Telecaster I added locking tuners which made a signifigant difference with staying in tune. Do pedal steels come with this as an option? It seems like this would make the most sense. Now that I think about it, it would probably cost a few hundred dollars to outfit a steel with such tuners.

Just curious!

Dave Mudgett · From: Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee

This used to get tossed around quite a bit in threads on the old forum, but I haven't seen it in quite a while.

Here are some old threads to start with:

http://steelguitarforum.com/Forum5/HTML/003723.html
http://steelguitarforum.com/Forum5/HTML/005363.html
http://steelguitarforum.com/Forum5/HTML/013802.html
http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=137729

I think the argument against these is that such tuners would cause increased string breakage, as compared to a standard tuner because:

1. The angle of the string coming off the tuning post may be quite extreme for a locking tuner, as compared to a tuner with multiple winds where it comes off over the top of the tuner shaft, and

2. The extra string winds on a standard tuner give a bit of spring and shock-absorption effect, which cushions the string somewhat under the extra load of constant string bending.

3. The extra winds also allow one to control where the string breaks away - it's desirable to breakaway in-line with the roller nut.

This made enough sense to me to nix that idea quite some time ago. But here's a thread where Emmett Roch described using a Sperzel locking tuner on the 3rd string with good results:

http://steelguitarforum.com/Forum5/HTML/005123.html

I discussed all this with Bob Sperzel about two years ago on the phone - I broached the subject of a locking tuner with a standard shaft that would permit a few winds. He took my email and phone, and said he'd get back to me, but never did. I still think that would be a good design for pedal steel tuners. For me, the advantage of a locking tuner is that it locks, but I still prefer to have some winds on the post, either for guitar or pedal steel. For me, the issues are string breakaway angle and being able to control where on the post the string breaks away. On a pedal steel, I want the string to break away in-line with the roller nut. On a 6-string guitar, I like the string to break away low enough on the post to give the angle that I want at the nut, not what someone else thinks it should be.

So unless and until someone comes up with a locking tuner like this, I don't find the backlash in most tuners to cause a significant enough tuning problem to make a change to a locking model.

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

I dunno. My first observation would be that there's an awful lot of Tele players out there who don't have locking tuners, and they seem to have little or no problems staying in tune.

What would you say to that? Neutral

David Mason · From: Cambridge, MD, USA

Locking tuners were designed in response to the locking whammy bars like the Floyd Rose and Kahler. Many people noticed that they made the tone thin, and also didn't want to drill through the headstock of their guitars at it's weakest point to install a heavy, hardware-laden locking nut. So, the locking tuner was born.

Because of an intrinsic flaw in human nature called "feature creep", it has now become popular to install locking tuners everywhichwhere, regardless of the whammy situation. I have seen a number of guitars that had locking tuners AND a locking Floyd Rose nut, because more of anything is invariably better.

Q: Are your pedal steel stings slipping at the tuners? Mine aren't. Shocked

Dave Mudgett · From: Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee

Pedal steel guitars are the ultimate string bending machines. I don't have 'em on my Teles either, nor are they needed - without a tremelo, one can only bend up, which only tightens the tuning mechanism. But they have been useful on guitars where I use a tremelo to bend down a lot. In that situation, the tuning mechanism can loosen up during the bend, and not come back completely. Those old Kluson Deluxe tuners have some backlash, and I think a retrofit that could be locked might be useful on Strats. My PRS has the locking tuners, and tuning stability with the tremelo is quite a bit better than the typical Strat.

So I'm not against the concept of locking tuners, but they need to remove the problems before I'd be interested. Even on my PRS with them, I think the random breakaway angle and lack of wraps can cause excess string breakage (at least I've noticed it), and I sure don't want that on a pedal steel.

I agree on feature creep - and that goes to the whole locking tuner thing. Why not make a standard tuner that simply locks? Instead, the main selling point pushed is how fast the strings go on from lack of needing to turn the keys more than once to tighten the string, as if it's difficult to put 3-5 winds on the strings. As I said earlier - on either guitar or steel, I want to be able to choose how many windings I put on the post for a number of different reasons.

Of course, and I meant to mention it - one can always use a keyless design, which obviates all these problems. But most steel players, for whatever reason, want tuning keys. The most common reason stated is that removing them changes the tone and feel of the guitar. I don't want to open up that debate, but simply note that a locking tuning key properly designed for pedal steel guitar seems entirely reasonable to me. I imagine that the reason it isn't happening is that there just isn't much perceived demand for it.

Per Berner · From: Skovde, Sweden

The big advantage with locking tuners is the time it takes (or rather doesn't take) to change strings.

I use locking Schallers on one of my Teles, but I haven't noticed that it stays in tune significantly better than the ones that have regular tuners.

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