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Topic: Searching for oil for PSG Maybe no oil |
Bo Legg
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Posted 8 Jun 2009 9:18 am |
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I'm just going to use a soft clean rag and a PC spray duster and nothing more forever.
What do you think?
Last edited by Bo Legg on 15 Nov 2009 1:09 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Doug Earnest
From:
Branson, MO USA
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Posted 8 Jun 2009 9:41 am
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I think that is a fine idea.
One drop of transmission fluid each year along with a good burst of compressed air to get the dust out is about all that is really necessary .
_________________
Doug Earnest
Manufacturer of Stage One & Encore pedal steel guitars
http://www.stageonesteelguitars.com
"Teach Your Children Well" |
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Michael Douchette
From:
Gallatin, TN (deceased)
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Georg Sørtun
From:
Mandal, Agder, Norway
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Posted 8 Jun 2009 2:30 pm
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I've had good results with DuPont Teflon Dry-film lubricants - the multi-use variant.
Apply small amounts between changers/fingers and key-end rollers, with strings off for optimal penetration. Wait 5 minutes - until it's dry, before stringing and tuning.
Repeat, with strings off, every 2 to 3 years, or less often if there's no need. Don't use any other lubricant there at any time.
Same lubricant for pedals, levers and mechanics. Only when needed - every few years. No preparation, apply small amounts, leave to dry before using.
The advantage is that the film is permanent, stable and dry, and that no dust gets attracted. It doesn't attack or dissolve any non-metallic materials, and there's no gumming-up over time. That it also has a long-lasting effect makes it even more attractive. |
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Bo Legg
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Posted 8 Jun 2009 3:03 pm
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Doug I must have missed the one about transmission fluid. Sounds like it would work.
Michael I think machine oil is what most folks use.
Georg I used the dry Teflon on everything but the consensus here seems to be that it was bad for the finish and the aluminum. I do think your oiling method is better than most and as good as any I've seen.
Over use of lubrications may be the only fault with any of the products. Using no lube at all would solve that problem. |
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Billy Carr
From:
Seminary, Mississippi, USA (deceased)
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Posted 9 Jun 2009 4:52 am oil
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| Rem oil works for me. Teflon based. Zero problems on guitars that I've used this on. A little Rem oil at each string change and its good to go. |
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Jack Dougherty
From:
Spring Hill, Florida, USA
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Posted 9 Jun 2009 5:55 am
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Inox Lubricant
Been using it for years. |
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Howard Tate
From:
Leesville, Louisiana, USA, R.I.P.
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Posted 9 Jun 2009 8:01 am
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| Mullen sells a very good oil in a great lube bottle with a needle applicator. Mike said if that runs out to use transmission fluid, but I think if you run out you must be using too much. Transmission fluid is what Bruce recommended for my Zum. |
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Ned McIntosh
From:
New South Wales, Australia
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Posted 9 Jun 2009 2:42 pm
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Next to tone, lubrication is possibly the second most contentious subject on the forums!
FWIW, I have seen many recommendations for Tri-Flow, the type with Teflon particles, for the changer and roller-nut, and I use it myself. For my pedal ball-joints, I use a wax-stick lubricant called Dri-Lube, which can be obtained at most engineering supplies, auto parts stores etc. Wipe it on so you just can't see it and you're done.
The Tri-Flow is often available at bicycle shops, and is widely recommended as chain-lube. Ther are several types of Tri-Flow, so read the label carefully. You may also find it at gun-shops. Very little is needed and it is best to apply with the end of a toothpick to the area between changer-fingers so it can penetrate. (Don't spray it on!) Lubrication-points under the changer should be in the manual for the guitar, and will vary according to them echanism used.
That said, the following lubricants are known to be in use (from trawling through the forums):- SAE 30 motor oil, turbine oil, 3-in-1 oil, gun-oil, transmission fluid, hydraulic fluid, Lanox, Inox, light general-purpose "sewing machine" oils, light grease, molybdenum grease and vaseline (or petroleum jelly). Doubtless there are others, although I have yet to see any reference to fish-oil.
For cleaning the old lube off, the following have been recommended:- Naptha (lighter-fluid), unleaded petrol, brake-cleen, carb-cleen, kerosene, Jet-A1, commercial solvent-based degreaser right through to toothpicks and ice-cream sticks for those really heavy buildups of grease, crud, grunge and road-grime!
Finally, there are strict injunctions by many against the used of WD-40. This is a water-displacing compound with incidental lubricating properties. Eventually it dries and gums up. There are, I believe, over 200 uses for WD-40 and counting. Steel-guitar lubrication isn't one of them.
_________________
The steel guitar is a hard mistress. She will obsess you, bemuse and bewitch you. She will dash your hopes on what seems to be whim, only to tease you into renewing the relationship once more so she can do it to you all over again...and yet, if you somehow manage to touch her in that certain magic way, she will yield up a sound which has so much soul, raw emotion and heartfelt depth to it that she will pierce you to the very core of your being. |
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Tony Smart
From:
Harlow. Essex. England
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Posted 9 Jun 2009 3:08 pm
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Using "no lube." is a bad idea.
Any engineer will tell you metal on metal dry, is a recipe for disaster.
Just think, what manufacturer advocates a no lube. policy? (except sealed components)
One of the reasons why a wet lube is superior(in my experience) is that it will always find it's way to where it's needed by capillary action. |
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Walter Bowden
From:
Wilmington, North Carolina, USA
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Posted 9 Jun 2009 4:15 pm
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As far as transmission oil, is the Ford type preferred to the GM?
_________________
Emmons S10, p/p, Nashville 112, Zion 50 tele style guitar, Gibson LP Classic w/Vox AC30, Fender Deluxe De Ville and a Rawdon-Hall classical |
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Georg Sørtun
From:
Mandal, Agder, Norway
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Posted 9 Jun 2009 4:17 pm
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I'll second that ... "no lube" is a bad idea, and few steels are made for "no lube".
However, at least one manufacturer, GFI, claim that "Moving parts are designed to need no lubrication or have been sufficiently lubricated at the factory to last the lifetime of the guitar."
So, GFI at least is "no lube" by design, and probably has to be treated really badly to ever need any.
So, it depends on the manufacturing process and quality of the actual instrument, but most steels will need that tiny drop in certain places to keep friction at a minimum.
What seems to cause most problems in steels is that many use loads of new oil to soften up the old one. Over time that'll only cause problems as more and more oil dries up and turns it something that resembles tar.
Better take time to check that parts that need lubrication are perfectly clean before applying new oil - no matter the type. Doing a proper job once every two years or so, should keep all but the most lousy built or old, second/third hand and already badly-handled and worn-down steels, working just fine for decades. |
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Bo Legg
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Posted 9 Jun 2009 11:45 pm
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I had an old BMI D-10 which I cleaned and lubed at the same time about once a year by painting the whole PSG down with kerosene using a big paint brush and then blew it dry with an air compressor and wipe and polish with a dry soft rag... I think kerosene has a little lube in it. It was always clean and no gummy parts ever. This would still be my choice to clean and lube a PSG but I no longer have a workshop where I can do that so I’m looking for another alternative.
I might mention don’t try this at home and don’t saturate the wood and don’t use the PSG for a couple of days. Do the work in a well ventilated place and leave the PSG there for a couple of days and let evaporation take its course.
This method is not for you faint of heart players that iron cresses in your shirts and Levis, have abalone inlay with a $1700 lacquer finish, a hand made leather pick bag hanging from the keys, sitting with your tight derrière clamped to your new PSG seat and have a neatly folded custom made all weather PSG cover. Geez that was hard to say all in one sentence.
Last edited by Bo Legg on 15 Nov 2009 1:18 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Georg Sørtun
From:
Mandal, Agder, Norway
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Posted 10 Jun 2009 1:57 am
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Kerosene contains small amounts of wax, and, apart from the smell the first few days, is excellent for cleaning moving parts in a pedal steel. When properly done and left to dry before use, the lubricating effect will meet and probably beat that of regular sewing machine oil and alike.
I would probably only use a tablespoon or two of the stuff to carefully clean and lube the changer/-fingers and pull-arm couplings by dripping small amounts slowly through and collecting the drip-off underneath - an outdoor activity because of the smell and highly flammable substance.
Kerosene will clean up any gummed-up surfaces in too-well oiled steels too, and bring their mechanics back to pristine conditions.
Should mention that any rags / cloth used in the cleaning process must be disposed of safely, as they can self-ignite. Same goes when regular oil is used.
Sidenote: I use kerosene to clean oil residue and dirt of mechanical parts and surfaces on farm equipment when nothing else works. I also use it to polish our cars for perfect and long-lasting shine - one tablespoon a car a year is enough  |
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Bo Legg
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Posted 10 Jun 2009 9:52 am
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Georg Sørtun, so my Kerosene is as good as any and maybe better than oil.
I've not heard of this on the forum before so I'm going to take credit for this new PSG lube and cleaner. Now maybe folks here on the forum will at last recognize me for my genius.  |
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Georg Sørtun
From:
Mandal, Agder, Norway
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Posted 10 Jun 2009 12:19 pm
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It's an old trick in other circles, but you certainly deserve the credit for bringing it up here
Just don't apply undiluted kerosene on rubber or plastic and leave for long, as given a bit of time it may dissolve them. If in doubt, dilute and wash off the kerosene with mild, warm, soap-water. Soak well, and finish by drying off water droplets with a dry cloth.
For surfaces that should shine, dilute a teaspoon of kerosene in mild, warm, soap-water - use very mild soap intended for washing dishes by hand. Wash carefully without soaking, and then dry off and polish with a soft cloth for as long as it takes the get the required shine. The kerosene wax will create an extremely thin, water and dirt repelling, film that'll protect the surface-shine on chrome, lacquer, steel and aluminum, for quite a while. |
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Bo Legg
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Posted 11 Jun 2009 12:16 pm
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| Georg Sørtun, You can and have given a clinic on the merits and use of kerosene. Very interesting and useful info. |
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Jim Sliff
From:
Lawndale California, USA
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Posted 11 Jun 2009 8:43 pm
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There are probably 50 threads about this if you do a search.
The DRY version of Tri-Flow teflon lube leaves no dirt-attracting oils, just a dry Teflon film. I started using it several years ago and will not use oil on any instrument. Use lighter fluid (naphtha) to flush out all the gunk, let it dry and apply a tiny bit of Tri Flow to all the moving parts.
Again - the "dry" version...there are two types. The dry one uses a paraffin with the Teflon - but just enough to hold things in place, not attracting dirt.
ALL oils both attract dirt and break down over time.
As mentioned, do a search - this has been discussed to death!
_________________
No chops, but great tone
1930's/40's Rickenbacher/Rickenbacker 6&8 string lap steels
1921 Weissenborn Style 2; Hilo&Schireson hollownecks
Appalachian, Regal & Dobro squarenecks
1959 Fender 400 9+2 B6;1960's Fender 800 3+3+2; 1948 Fender Dual-8 Professional |
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Micky Byrne
From:
United Kingdom (deceased)
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Posted 12 Jun 2009 6:15 am
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Tony, I'll 3rd that, that "No lube is a bad idea" Years ago, and I mean years ago, I lubed my Sho-Bud with the now "Dreaded" WD-40 for steel guitars. Admittedly I did have to wipe off the gunge build up periodically, but it did allow a great playing action, and stood me well for hundreds of gigs. These days I just use 3-in one oil on both the Bud Uni and the Carter Uni. Got to get together one day mate...lots to catch up on, I'm back in Essex now. Cheers,
Micky Byrne United Kingdom
www.micky-byrne.co.uk |
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Bo Legg
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Posted 14 Jun 2009 10:08 am
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Yes there have been a lot of past posts regarding oil for the PSG.
I was looking for something new and not previously mentioned here on the forum. .
Kerosene has been previously mentioned for cleaning but never suggested as a lubricant as well.
Something old was reborn as something new and asking an old question will over time most generally receive a new or revised answer. |
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Don Drummer
From:
West Virginia, USA
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Posted 14 Jun 2009 12:03 pm U-Lube
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| Well said Mr. Legg. Don D. |
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John Bechtel
From:
Nashville, Tennessee, R.I.P.
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Posted 15 Jun 2009 4:49 pm
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Charles Stepp (Derby Steel Guitars) recommended a drop of [GUNk], a product of Liquid Wrench; available at Dollar General Stores! One-Drop on either side of each Bridge~Finger. Use sparingly on any moving parts.
_________________
<marquee> Go~Daddy~Go, (No), Go, It's your Break Time</marquee> L8R, jb
My T-10 Remington Steelmaster |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 15 Jun 2009 5:11 pm
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| Quote: |
| I'm going to go lub-less this time on my new PSG with the idea that the best lub is no lub. |
If I had a new steel, I might ask the guy who built it! 
I use light oil. I'm not a fan of dry lubes as they do not continue to migrate where they're needed as oil does. If the oil you're using "gums up" in less than a decade, you're using the wrong kind of oil. |
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Adam Sorber
From:
Pennsylvania, USA
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Posted 16 Jun 2009 5:24 am
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I've had good luck using air-tool oil lubricant. It doesn't gum up and prevents rust
_________________
Adam Sorber
Sho Bud PROII custom D-10
Sho Bud PROII custom SD-10
Fender Super Twin Reverb
Fender Ultra-linear Twin Reverb |
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