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Topic: Let Me Be The First To Complain |
Gary Lee Gimble
From:
Fredericksburg, VA.
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Posted 31 May 2009 4:26 am |
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| the most cogent, insightful post on this thread was by my friend Peter Finney! |
Bill, your last post reinforces "the most cogent, insightful post...."  |
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Bill Hankey
From:
Pittsfield, MA, USA
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Posted 31 May 2009 5:32 am
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Gary,
Who could go wrong while one's professional career spans acquaintances with the other coal miner's daughter Patricia Ramey (Patty Loveless), from Pikeville, Kentucky. It has been 30 years since Patty emerged as one of the major female singers, and she has experienced the changes on the road to success. I'd be interested in hearing more about future "insightful" posts, and the climate surrounding Pete's support group in connection with singers, who may match Patty's contributions for listening pleasure.
Last edited by Bill Hankey on 31 May 2009 6:22 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Herb Steiner
From:
Spicewood TX 78669
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Posted 31 May 2009 6:06 am
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It's truly amazing how the subject and tone of posts here can change directions faster than a cockroach in a kitchen when the lights get turned on!! 
Ride on and tilt hard, Quixote! The windmills of one's mind are multitudinous, and very easy to find.
_________________
My rig: Infinity and Telonics.
Son, we live in a world with walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with steel guitars. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Lt. Weinberg? |
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Dave Mudgett
From:
Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee
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Posted 31 May 2009 6:55 am
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| ... may I remind y'all of this thing called "The Golden Rule?" Say what you will, it's only a suggestion, but if you want respect as a player, SHOW respect as a player. |
Emphatically agreed. This is my main beef with this forum overall - there is too much overt complaining about things that are beyond the control of anybody here, nor do I think we have a right to control these things. People are gonna like what they like, but we all have plenty of options if we don't like what's going on - turn the channel, practice, more music online that I have time to listen to, local shows, you name it.
My view is that if I, personally, stick more to figuring out what I can do and stop worrying so intensely about what other people are doing, I'll be a lot better off. In fact, controlling oneself is a plenty tall order on its own. Take from that what you will.
FWIW - if it helps you to vent your spleen and tilt at windmills, go for it. I imagine we all do it occasionally. But my opinion only - if this becomes one's philosophical center, it can become very destructive. Been there, done that, don't want to go back. |
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Bill Hankey
From:
Pittsfield, MA, USA
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Posted 31 May 2009 8:18 am
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Dave,
I must not tempt Quixote by challenging him to a joust, even it could have been possible in some earlier life. Carrasco finally won over Quixote in a second joust dressed as a knight. It's not intended to be complimentary in any event, this much I'm certain of. The George Strait Celebration is still very much in focus, and Texas Special quips will serve to attract more attention to the Monday night event in Vegas. |
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Bo Legg
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Posted 31 May 2009 4:21 pm
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| Quixote and this Topic. A Parallel Paradox. |
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Alan Harrison
From:
Murfreesboro Tennessee, USA
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Posted 1 Jun 2009 3:17 am This Topic Proves It!
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I think this topic proves that opinions are like belly buttons, everyone has one.....or two.
It hasn't changed my thoughts on the show, I still think George Strait is the King of Country Music, the show was great and Paul played the strings off his Franklin.
_________________
Mullen (Black) Pre G-2 9x7, B.L. 705 PUP's, Evans SE 200 Telonics NEO 15-4, BJS Bar, Peterson Strobo Flip, Steelers Choice Seat, Folgers Coffee and Hilton Pedals.
"I Steel Without Remorse" |
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Bill Hankey
From:
Pittsfield, MA, USA
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Posted 1 Jun 2009 3:45 am
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Bo Legg,
People in general are susceptible to a fondness for enunciation. Take the name George Jones for example. His last name is simplistic in terms of spelling. Still, country oriented followers, some who are off and on, while others possess an irresistible urge to utter his name over and over. The "Parallel Paradoxes" and Quixotes are infiltrated, and do exist in large numbers throughout big time management, and all the way down to most common lifestyles imaginable. While you're beating me down by suggesting there is a likeness to "Paradoxes" or a Quixote lifestyle in my very existence, I frequently enjoy a CD published by MCA in Nashville by George Strait, and produced by George Strait with Tony Brown, for George Strait Productions. It's the "One Step At A Time" on CD's. IMO, it could be his best effort to entertain. In 1991 MCA released the CD "Up Against My Heart" one of Patty's most entertaining recordings. It's a winner! My favorite CD among singers, that probably excels a mountain of others, namely, is Conway Twitty's string of hits called 16 Biggest Hits. What an absolute bargain! It was produced on a blue "Epic" label, in 2001 by The Sony Music Entertainment Inc. Simply put, it exceeds
the best efforts of a pile of artists 10 feet high. I believe it was "published" as early as "94, and '95 as well. The CD # is EK 85972. It's a wonderful CD to play at dinnertime, or when you would enjoy reminiscing with two of country music's very best; Conway and the band, featuring John Hughey on steel guitar. That CD gets my vote for durability, and pure enjoyment. The George Strait extravaganza featuring intolerable screaming fans, further blemished an event that may have been overdone. You can bet the fans were not screaming for more of the steel guitarist. That "bugs" me! After all, the steel players have had much to do with some of the huge successes that have originated in recording studios.
Last edited by Bill Hankey on 2 Jun 2009 4:05 am; edited 2 times in total |
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Franklin
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Posted 1 Jun 2009 6:04 am
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Bill,
The musicians were hired as the staff band for a network special. In the old days of network specials, they staged the staff bands in an orchestra pit, out of view from any straight on camera shots of the performer. So, we have visibly progressed since those days of the Eddy Arnold style special. I remember hearing Hal, never seeing him on specials like the ones Arnold and Cash would host, back in the day. Hal usually got most of those network gigs because he read music. Its always nice to see someone play. We were seen and heard.
Just because there is a steel guitarist on stage, to assume he/she is there to promote the instrument is naive. In my working environments, it is a major mistake to assume ANY instrument is more important than the other instruments in a band.
Playing great music is about teamwork. The best teams share the same concepts about what is, and is not, important to the song, the gig, and most important, the artist who is always our boss, whom we are hired to represent.
The only way to change from the sideman role is to pursue an artists career. Robert Randolph is the ONLY steel guitarist of late who is chose to advance his career as an artist. I chose the sideman gig.
I was honored to sit on that stage with everyone involved. George Strait is great for Country Music. It was also great for Taylor Swift fans to hear her sing a more centered composition. Urban singing Marty Robbins was brilliant. As he was singing I thought about his fans tuning in and hearing him sing songs that are most likely foreign to their knowledge of Country music. That has to be good overall. It is my opinion that traditional Country Music had a great night.
Thanks to all for the nice comments. George is the king in my book!
Paul |
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John P. Phillips
From:
Folkston, Ga. U.S.A., R.I.P.
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Posted 1 Jun 2009 7:05 am
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Paul,
I humbly thank you for your words. It's so appealing to hear it from "The Horses Mouth" (so to speak)Maybe this will go far to quell some of the snide remarks. Evidently you have made excellent choices and I commend you for the courage it took to do so.That's what life is all about. CHOICES. As long as you are happy with yours, who is to say who is right and who is wrong. You have, and are continuing to make multitudes happy and entertained in your own way. This is not meant to be a "leg-humping" comment but to merely thank you for your enlightening post.Keep on making your own choices. You obviously are making the right ones!
_________________
Just remember,
You don�t stop playing cause you get older,
You get older cause you stop playing ! http://www.myspace.com/johnpphillips |
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Bill Hankey
From:
Pittsfield, MA, USA
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Posted 1 Jun 2009 7:41 am
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Paul,
This is indeed a great honor to read the lines written by a true master of the pedal steel. I've entertained the thought for quite some time, that you possess the executive abilities to manage your affairs in a very competitive market place. I've also considered your skillful management of affairs several times, in situations that would be overwhelming to the average steel guitarist. (Jimmy Day comes to mind), as his cool demeanor has shown brightly through the years. Yours is even more indelibly implanted in my "memoirs" of favorite personalities. Thanks for opening up on subjects that could lead to many fireside chats in the future. It is very much appreciated. |
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Ellis Miller
From:
Cortez, Colorado, USA
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Posted 1 Jun 2009 8:01 am
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Paul,
Thank you for the reality check.
_________________
Ellis Miller
Don't believe everything you think.
http://www.ellismillermusic.com |
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Brian Straub
From:
Connecticut, USA
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Posted 1 Jun 2009 8:35 am Strait
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Well said Paul F. I was able to see the program and enjoyed the diversity of guests and the overall musically ability of all the players. Overall, superb playing by all. Was able to get to Great Woods Saturday to check out George Strait and the Ace in the Hole band...Excellent as usual. As Paul said, everyone in the band is equally important. Yeah, I was impressed by Mike Daily's playing and sort of focusing on that side of the stage but was more impressed how these players meld together as a team....That band has 11 players and is quite a team!! Blake Shelton was excellent too. Anyone out there know who is steeler is? He was playing a Zum...sounded great as well. My wife and I had a great time despite getting run off the road at exit 1 in Rhode Island by a drunk driver at 1am.
_________________
Justice D-10, Evans Amp, Sarno V-8, Gibson Lap Steel BR-9, Telonics Pedal. |
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Ken Thompson
From:
Great Falls, Montana, USA
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Posted 1 Jun 2009 1:25 pm
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My personal observation was this was one of the most entertaining nationally broadcast shows featuring county music that I have seen in years. Much better than the awards show for one reason....good country music. I thought the musicians were featured appropriatly. Would I have liked to have seen more of the band? Of course. Why, because like most of you I am a side man and spend more time watching the players than the singers at a concert. However, this was about George and I was pleased at the whole production.
My biggest observation, and I truly believe this, is; the best country songs have already been written and sung. The thing that stuck out to me is that all of the performers can sing a real country song when they want, or allowed to do so. I would love to see more of the current stars release some of the good songs that have already been done ie, Carrie Underwood. So for me it was more about the good music than who was singing the song or which player was seen on the screen. It did not take long for me to recognize Paul so I did not need to see him every minute. Most of us would rather be heard than seen I imagine. hahaha. Great show and it will stay on my DVR for a long time. |
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Bill Hankey
From:
Pittsfield, MA, USA
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Posted 1 Jun 2009 2:27 pm
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The gates are open wide in Nashville, even though we've lost such greats as Atkins, Rugg, Day, Chalker, West, Rey, Brumley, and a disturbing list of experts in the recording industry. We've heard the very best from Emmons, White, Franklin, Green, Jernigan, Wallace, Seymour, Evans, and all the rest included over the years. David Hartley from the U.K. has left thousands in disbelief with his You Tube releases. My point is this; as a player you may be able to produce a style of playing that is new in music city. Just as Atkins did, when he stepped on The Mother Church Stage of The Grand Old Opry. It isn't possible to rise above, as a super talent, buried beneath a barrage of controls maintaining strong base lines and percussion. Overcoming blatant ignorance in the management of stage presences could help to insure a wider range of successes, particularly for the benefit of steel guitarists.
Last edited by Bill Hankey on 2 Jun 2009 2:07 am; edited 1 time in total |
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John P. Phillips
From:
Folkston, Ga. U.S.A., R.I.P.
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Posted 1 Jun 2009 5:35 pm here we go again
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Talk about beatin' a dead horse !
_________________
Just remember,
You don�t stop playing cause you get older,
You get older cause you stop playing ! http://www.myspace.com/johnpphillips |
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Herb Steiner
From:
Spicewood TX 78669
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Posted 1 Jun 2009 6:46 pm
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Ken
Your view that the great songs have already been written and sung is not an uncommon opinion. Witness several extremely popular channels on XM/Sirius radio, among them Willie's Place (13), and the Strictly Sinatra Channel (72).
Willie's only plays classic country and music made today that fits with classic country, like some traditional Texas artists of today and back through the 40's. It sounds like Jim Loessberg programmed the play list. 
Strictly Sinatra features all of Frank's recorded works, plus interpreters of the past and present (Tony Bennett, Nat Cole, Peggy Lee, etc., the list goes on and on) who sing from the Great American Songbook; i.e. standards written by the great songwriters of the 1920's through the 1960's.
The volume of work we're talking about is huge. And these are just the classics. I love both these incredible channels.
As I see it, the problem is... money, and who gets it. Great old songs being sung and sold means money for the writer or his heirs; in other words, someone other than the singer, his publishing company, and his record company. In today's world, I'm sorry, but that will never do, will it? I didn't think so.
Where's that Hunter Thompson quote when I need it?
_________________
My rig: Infinity and Telonics.
Son, we live in a world with walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with steel guitars. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Lt. Weinberg? |
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Tommy Shown
From:
Denham Springs, La.
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Posted 1 Jun 2009 7:59 pm
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IMHO that Herb Steiner is no "has-been" by any means.
Herb has done some outstanding work with some of the greats in Texas Country Music. And another thing, let's set the record straight. An artist is only as good as the people he has working with him.
And last Paul,I too want to thank you for explaining that about the hired stage band. Several years ago I was in Nashville on my way back home to Louisiana, staying at the same motel with Gene Watsons' band. When I was talking to Tiny Olson, his steel guitar player at the time.They had just got through doing a session on Hee Haw. Tiny as gracious as he was took time out to explain to me that when they do a TV show the union, will only let the artist use two members of his touring band to do the TV show.
George Strait is a great entertainer. No doubt about it. I think it's amazing how they can a stage band or a house band to duplicate the song note for note.
Overall from what my wife said, the show was a great show. If I was not working at my "day job"(which my overnight job), I for one would have loved to have seen. I have seen George Strait in concert before and he puts on one hell of a show. When I left, I felt like I was entertained. I don't unerstand why they had Jamie Fox on nor that band that murdered "All my exes" but that is the way Nashville is going.
Tommy |
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Cameron Tilbury
From:
Peterborough, England, UK
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Posted 2 Jun 2009 2:36 am
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| Franklin wrote: |
Bill,
Playing great music is about teamwork. The best teams share the same concepts about what is, and is not, important to the song, the gig, and most important, the artist who is always our boss, whom we are hired to represent.
Paul |
Thanks Paul. Damn...you're good.
_________________
Sho Bud Super Pro D10 |
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Bill Hankey
From:
Pittsfield, MA, USA
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Posted 2 Jun 2009 3:49 am
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Tommy,
Complaining is not always a safe thing to do, in earshot of others who may become irritated by someone who is willing to spot discrepancies, even at professional levels. You can spot the types who will come back at you like a cornered tiger in the tall grasses where they lie hidden from controversy. Once any tampering of accepted traditions, through carefully worded suggested changes are made, the controversy erupts much like miniature volcanic sputtering. Our sprinkling of influences in this vast eternal spin through space, and the unknown, matters ever so little. Why then, has it not occurred to the moguls that by gaining control of industries on a varied scale, it differs not from the end work of chance ingenuity. I'm sure that the fallen heros of steel guitar musical presentations, could have rescued the untrained and abysmally ignorant by introducing them to a beginning. These beginnings represent the expulsion of ignorance, and reconciling with changes that will open doors to new mindsets.
Last edited by Bill Hankey on 2 Jun 2009 6:19 am; edited 1 time in total |
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John Macy
From:
Rockport TX/Denver CO
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Posted 2 Jun 2009 4:48 am
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| Tommy Shown wrote: |
Tiny as gracious as he was took time out to explain to me that when they do a TV show the union will only let the artist use two members of his touring band to do the TV show.
Tommy |
My guess is that the show would only pay for two union players in addition to the artist, not the union stopping additional players...
_________________
John Macy
Rockport, TX
Engineer/Producer/Steel Guitar |
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Bill Hankey
From:
Pittsfield, MA, USA
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Posted 2 Jun 2009 5:19 am
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I'm wondering if the expense issues pointed out by Tommy Shown would be worthy of elaboration? I'm interpreting a sort of damper in use by the powerful Music Union. Can this be true? Could we learn more why those moguls who control musical productions by enforcing limitations, cannot be dealt with through some avenue of legality? Who ever heard of such nonsense, as the controlling of the quality of sound?
Last edited by Bill Hankey on 2 Jun 2009 7:07 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Pete Finney
From:
Nashville Tn.
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Posted 2 Jun 2009 5:55 am
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The wise and experienced John Macy is absolutely right (as usual!); there must have been some misinterpretation as to what Tiny said. A TV show might restrict the number of band members for financial reasons (since they're already paying their "staff band"), but the musicians union certainly wouldn't and hasn't; that's the opposite of what they do.
For what it's worth, back in the day I played on "Hee-Haw" with many different artists during the later years of the show and it was always with the artist's full band; it may have been that they loosened up their budget a bit since the time that Tiny is talking about. |
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Bill Hankey
From:
Pittsfield, MA, USA
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Posted 2 Jun 2009 7:03 am
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Pete,
Your response is an excellent and most informative addition to matters concerning how the management of resources are handled by executives of money affairs. Chris Olson now living in upper New York State, told me of a time that he was sandwiched between two of the finest steel players ever, in the state of Texas. It could have been at Herb's celebration of super talents in the yearly Texas show. Chris is one of my heroes in this life. He is one fine gentleman. I hope that he may notice that he has been mentioned in this thread. |
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Randy Beavers
From:
Lebanon,TN 37090
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Posted 2 Jun 2009 7:24 am
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| Quote: |
Just because there is a steel guitarist on stage, to assume he/she is there to promote the instrument is naive. In my working environments, it is a major mistake to assume ANY instrument is more important than the other instruments in a band.
Playing great music is about teamwork. The best teams share the same concepts about what is, and is not, important to the song, the gig, and most important, the artist who is always our boss, whom we are hired to represent. |
These words should be posted between the necks on everyones guitar!
Of all the instruction Paul had given over the years, this is among the finest. |
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