To Pedal Steel Now or Later?

Ben Feher · From: Austin TX

Hello wonderful steel guitar community!

Sorry this is a long post...

I've been lurking in the shadows reading the steel guitar forum for some time now, and drooling over the classifieds and filling my brain with steel guitar wizdom but the time has finally come for me to ask my big question, do I start pedal steel now or later?

I have known for a while that I will someday play pedal steel. The more I hear it, the more I love it, and thanks to reading lots of posts here, I think I understand how one goes about playing it.

So here is my story. According to the average forum age poll (I searched) I am one of only 2% of the forum. I'm 25. I've only been playing music for 3 years, and playing mostly Mandolin but a little guitar and bass too. Chord structure and music theory come pretty easy to me and I'm almost entirely self taught by ear. I've made very fast progress, music comes pretty easy to me, and I'm in a band already, were not great but we play all orgionals and have good spirit.

Anyway, lets get to the point. If you havent read anything yet, start here.

I've just got some money burning in my pocket thanks to the government enforced savings program known as income tax returns. And I'm looking at a new instrument. I want to go staight to pedal steel, but truth be told, I've never even been within 5 feet of one in my life let alone played one. I'm tempted to just jump right in. I have, howerver played a little bit of lap steel without a volume pedal.

I'm wondering if it wouldnt make sense to start with lap steel (with VolPed) and build a base of talent on one or both of those instruments first. I feel that if I can get good at lap first, when I do finally get a pedal steel, I'll already have the slide mentality in my head and will really only be adding the pedals and stuff. I'm worried that going straight to pedal steel will just be an information overload and I wont even know where to begin, But if I start on something more managable like lap when I'll probably feel right at home on pedal steel.

On the other hand, if I'm planning to go to to pedal steel in the end, why not start on it? Its a lot to grasp right now but hey, why not start where I want to end up right? Would having a familiarity with lap really help my steel playing in the long run or would it just make sense to just start the learning process with pedal steel? Or could it even hinder my pedal steelin? I know that dobro technique and muting are WAY diffrernt than pedal steel. Lap steel is a bit more similar I think. Also, as we all know pedal steel is a lot more expensive than the other options and although I can afford it, its still quite a big purchase for me.

I'm pretty patient though, and I'm willing to build my chops on a lap if it would really help in the end.

So what does everyone think? To Pedal Steel Now or Later, that is the question...

Important: I'm worndering if the lessons learned from having to make do with the limitations of a fixed tuning on a lap steel are important enough that I should try to learn them before trying pedal steel?

Jerry Overstreet · From: Louisville Ky

I don't buy the contention that dobro and/or lap steel are necessary and a natural progression on the way to pedal steel. Different instruments, different approach.

At your young age and with your musical background, you should be able to pick up pretty fast.

Buy as good a professional instrument as you can afford. That'll let you concentrate on the rudiments without having to fight mechanical problems and limitations sometimes inherent with inferior instruments.

There must be some pedal steelers in your area. Hunt 'em up and look over their instruments, pick their brains.

You'll get hordes of opinions. In the end, it's all up to whatever fits your needs and speaks to you the loudest same as learning any other instruments.

JMO....Best of Luck Exclamation

Dave Mudgett · From: Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee

Of course, only you know the real answer to this question. It is entirely legitimate to go dobro/lap first, and then move to pedal steel later, and if you plan to get serious about those, that would make sense to me.

But if, on the other hand, you really think the main goal is to play pedal steel and the others are merely a means to that end, I would probably start with pedal steel now.

I didn't start pedal steel till well into my 40's, after playing 6-string guitar for 30 years, with slide guitar, banjo, and a bit of bass, dobro, and lap steel along the way. I think I was just convinced that the pedal steel was too expensive and hard to learn - and although I agree it is expensive and relatively difficult to learn, one of my few musical regrets is that I didn't just jump into it much earlier. I have guitars that are more expensive than a good professional pedal steel, and it ain't gonna really get any easier to learn.

To me, the real question is - are you really burning to learn pedal steel? If so, this should be a very easy question to answer and probably nothing any of us says makes any real difference. Otherwise, it may not be such an easy question, but neither does it probably matter what we think.

Just my take.

Charles Davidson · From: Phenix City Alabama, USA

Ben, I agree with Jerry,If you can afford it,buy a pro guitar,that you won't spend all your time trying to keep it in TUNE.There are loads of great courses out there on DVD,get a beginners course and start with that,click on the venders at the top of the page and check them out,Bobbe Seymour,Frenches, etc,EVERYTHING you need ,these guys have it, Good luck, DYKBC.
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Steve Stallings · From: Houston/Cypress, Texas

Buy the nicest D10 you can afford. If possible, buy a nice used pro model. You will save money that way and also have something to sell or trade should you decide to buy a new steel. I don't think you can go wrong with virtually any pro level steel currently on the market. For simplicity sake, I would suggest an 8x5 Emmons setup. That is the predominant setup (I play the old Shobud setup).

Brands? Laughing

take your pick. Virtually all of the current builders are making very nice instruments. I advise against "student models" unless money is an issue. I've played a ton of different guitars. My favorite always seems to be the guitar I currently am playing... at least for this week. Rolling Eyes

Go for it...
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Steve Stallings
Emmons Legrande II 8X5

Bob Blair · From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada

Go for it - there is no reason to wait. And no reason to start with anything less than a good quality pedal steel unless you can't afford it. I got my first PSG when I was about your age - ordered it sight unseen through a local music store (they were a hard thing to lay one's hands on back then... I guess compared to most instruments they still are). I'd have been better off with a pro model, but all I felt I could afford to start was one of the student models of the day (an MSA Sidekick). It got me started, and I got most of my money out of it after I moved up to a better guitar. Don't get a student model unless that is all you can afford, because if you like the instrument you will want to upgrade soon anyway.

Chris Buchanan · From: Macomb, IL

Hello Ben. If it's Pedal Steel you want, then do that. I've found that Dobro and Lap Steel are entirely different instruments. While of course there is some crossover, the thing to learn is the thought process that goes into playing these things. Each one requires a different way of visualizing music. As soon as possible begin to train your brain to hear and think like a pedal steeler.
Like anything else, you learn in stages. Keep at it, one thing at a time, and you'll see it's easier to learn the Pedal Steel than it is to break free from a preconceived notion.
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Ben Feher · From: Austin TX

Oh, I forgot a really important question from my above post.

I'm worndering if the musical lessons learned from having to make do with the limitations of a fixed tuning on a lap steel are important enough that I should try to learn them before trying pedal steel?

Also, the more I think about it, Dobro is a totally different animal. Apples and oranges and what not. Scratch that from the reasoning.

Main post edited to reflect new thoughts.

Dave Mudgett · From: Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee

Charles Curtis · Posted 12 May 2009 2:06 pm

I agree with Steve, especially the Emmons copedent. I'd like to be 25 with the psgs available today and with the massive amount of information. I would also find a good psg music teacher if possible.

Tom Quinn · Posted 12 May 2009 3:26 pm

Dobro and lap steel are completely different instruments. Get a D-10 even if you have to put some on your credit card. A 70s MSA D-10 is a great starter intrument. The best would be a Sho-Bud Professional because you can change the copendent in minutes and you will get in on the ground floor of true pro guitars. They are starting to get expensive though.

Stay away from cable-operated rigs. Have fun and remember that you are about to take a VERY strange journey... -L-
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I need an Emmons!

Marlin Smoot · From: Kansas

Pedal Steel - you'll spend the rest of your life playing it and always learning something new. That goes for about any instrument.

Tom Quinn · Posted 12 May 2009 4:18 pm

You'll just be hanging out with cooler folks...
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I need an Emmons!

John Lemieux · From: Ontario, Canada

Ben go for it now.You never know what surprise life has for you just around the corner.There,s a wealth of learning material available now too.You can have a look at Carter steel guitars like other brands,they are world class. Good luck.
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music is the spice of life

chris ivey · From: california (deceased)

it's now or never!
get a good used d10...find someone to show you some basics...start playing....good luck fighting off the groupies and get a bigger pillowcase for all your money!

David Doggett · Posted 12 May 2009 6:08 pm

Pedal steel is actually easier to play than lap steel. That's what all the pedals, levers and extra strings are for. At a single fret you can play two octaves of a scale, some chromatics, the I, IV, V, vi, ii chords, and some 7th, 6th, 9th, dim, aug, and sus chords. It is daunting to learn all that at the same time you are learning the subtleties of the bar, picks, and the volume pedal. But good instruction (both face-to-face and materials) can teach you all that in simple steps. Also, E9 uses the same frets as playing standard guitar using F-type bar chords.

On lap steel you have to jump all over the neck and use slants. The techniques are very different. A straight E tuning would use the same frets as standard guitar. But that is a fairly limited tuning mostly used for 6-string lap steel for blues and rock. Country, Western Swing, Hawaiian and jazz are mostly played on 8-string C6 (or other 6th tunings), which is very different from standard guitar.

Now, having said all that, most of the pedal steel greats of the golden age of pedal steel (late '50s through early '70s) played non-pedal steel on multiple necks for many years before taking up pedal steel. This gave them a huge leg up with their hands and ears. And it gave richness to their playing and knowledge of theory. They understood pedals and levers as doing many of the things they did with slants before. Also, A6 was one of the most common non-pedal tunings; and E9 with "the pedals down" is an A6 tuning. C6 was the other most common tuning, and that strongly prepared them for the C6 neck of a D10. But unless you get a D8 or T8 and spend a few years there, you are not necessarily going to get their rich learning experience on a single-neck 6- or 8-string lap steel.

So, ideally, if you were planning to start young and take a long term program of several years of training, it might make some sense to learn to play a D8 for a couple of years before moving on to pedal steel. You would then progress on pedal steel much more quickly than if you started it from scratch. And you would also be a pretty good lap steel player, a valuable art many pedal steelers cherish. But, you would have spent a couple of years that could have been spent getting to be a pretty good pedal steel player. And you can always learn pedal steel first, and go back an learn non-pedal steel later.

So it all depends on what your short-term and long-term goals are. If you can afford a decent one, it is certainly possible to jump right in on pedal steel and start from there.

Jim Cohen · From: Philadelphia, PA

David is right: Pedal steel is for lazy people like me who don't want to have to cultivate good bar-slant technique and learn where all the partial chords are hidden. For those reasons, it's actually easier to play than lap or non-pedal steel. (You want a IV chord? No problem! Keep your hands exactly where they are and mash pedals A&B. Voila!)

People always ask me how I managed to "learn such a difficult instrument". I tell them that the secret is to learn it before you run into too many people who tell you how difficult it is to learn! Don't psyche yourself into thinking "it's so hard"; it's not. I had a brand new student this very evening come to me with his newly-acquired Sho-Bud Maverick (student guitar) saying how utterly mystified he was by the instrument and couldn't make heads or tails of it. Within a half an hour, he understood how to get around, where the major chord groups are, what the main pedals do and why, and was feeling pretty good about understanding the pedal steel! Suddenly, it was "demystified" for him and now he doesn't think that hill is too high to climb anymore.

You say you love pedal steel? Go get you one, son, and have at it! But I do recommend finding a local teacher to do the demystification job for you.
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Andy Jones · From: Mississippi

Ben,do it now,man.Don't tarry.I started pedal steel when I was around 20 years old and worked on it for a few months.Then I got interested in bluegrass[banjo]and sold the steel.I always wanted to get another one,and did,33 years later.I'm learning to be a decent steeler after almost 4 years;but I'll never be the player that I could have been.I don't regret the bluegrass,but I sure as heck regret it every day that I didn't get another steel guitar for 33 years.

Andy

Twayn Williams · From: Portland, OR

If you're really burning to play PSG, get one. Along with everyone else here, I recommend a pro instrument if you can afford one.

Unlike a lot of the folks here, I don't recommend a used instrument as your first unless it comes from a reputable dealer (like Bobbe at SGN) or from someone you know and trust. It's important with a used PSG to have someone who knows what they are doing check it out thoroughly.

If you have the money, buy new.

I also recommend that you purchase an inexpensive lap steel at some point as well. A lot of times it helps with the learning process to be able to strip down the amount of variables, and with a 6-string lap steel there are far fewer strings and none of those pesky pedals or levers Smile

A lap steel will allow you to concentrate on the all important right and left hand skills (i.e. intonation and blocking.) Everything else is secondary to these.
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K.J. Tucker · From: Texas

We were just the other day discussing the same topic under a different title .

Topic: Steel guitar newbie needing advice...

Read my comments on this and I hope it might help .

Later
Tuck
Cool

P.S. Don't know how to link these.....Sorry
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Brett Day · From: Pickens, SC

Well, I started out on pedal steel and started learnin' lapsteel in '02, but because of my cerebral palsy in my left hand, I play more pedal steel than lapsteel because with my left hand the way it is, it's harder for me to handle lapsteel.

Brett

Tom Quinn · Posted 14 May 2009 6:28 pm

Here's one now:

http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=158543

You can go along ways with this guitar.
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I need an Emmons!

Tom Quinn · Posted 14 May 2009 6:28 pm

Here's one now:

http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=158543

You can go along ways with this guitar.
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I need an Emmons!

Edward Meisse · From: Santa Rosa, California, USA

I played lap steel for awhile before recently getting pedals. I'm going to keep one lap steel for the sake of convenience when I really absolutely can't for one reason or another take the pedal guitar. But the pedal guitar is my main guitar by far from now on. You see, the thing is, I can still play all the stuff that I used to play on the lap steel on the pedal steel. But I CAN'T do the stuff that I'm now beginning to do on the pedal guitar with a lap steel. That is why the pedals are there. So now I'm wondering what took me so long to wise up. I'm with the guys urging you to buy the best D10 you can afford.
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Amor vincit omnia

Mark S. Miller · From: Depew, NY, USA

Ben, I am in Buffalo N Y. If you want to make the trip up here for a day, I will set you behind 3 of the best pedal steel guitars on the market today,(no D-10's) and spend the day telling you why you should get started now. I was 30 when I started and 22 years later I have never regreted it, except that I didn't srart sooner. Mark

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